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How does one create a "disc ID alternate profile"?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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I have the Ingmar Bergman box set and have tried to contribute the 30 Disc IDs, but was rejected because I didn't add them as child profiles. In fact I broke several rules that I mean to correct.

However, I stumbling on the very first step. I believe the relevant rule is this one:

"Discs with more than one movie on a single side should be entered as one profile per movie. Use a disc ID profile, and as many disc ID alternate profiles as required."

Looking at the UI for DVDP, I see the 3rd tab is where I add a disc by Disc ID.

Now some of these discs contain 1 movie, while others contain 2 movies (on the same side).

SCENARIO #1:
When I insert a disc with 1 movie and DVDP shows me 1 or more matching profiles, is it safe to add any of those profiles to my collection?
I ask this because those profiles already have UPCs and/or DISC IDs but they are NOT the same as the disc I'm adding.

SCENARIO #2:
When I insert a disc with 2 movies and I've already added the first movie profile, how do I add a new profile for the second movie on the same disc? I don't see a way to add this "Disc ID alternate profile" in the Add Disc window.

I did search the forums for this topic but was unable to find these particular scenarios.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,517
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For either of these you can create an alternate version from the Change UPC / Locality section.

Scenario #1

If your version does not already exist, you can download a similar profile with the same Disc ID.  Then select from the File menu, DVD -> Change UPC/Locality..., and then click the Blue arrow button on the right side of the popup window.  From here, select "Create Alternate Version" and leave the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box unchecked.  Click OK, and then update the new profile to reflect your version.

Scenario #2

Same steps as above for the first movie.  For the second or subsequent follow-on movies, follow the above steps, but check the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,864
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I also have Ingmar Bergman's Cinema and all the child profiles for the films already exist.  Try Online -> Refresh DVD from Invelos -> Check for Child Profiles
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
I also have Ingmar Bergman's Cinema and all the child profiles for the films already exist.  Try Online -> Refresh DVD from Invelos -> Check for Child Profiles


Thanks so much. I was trying to add these because they did not appear upon refresh. I just tried again and they still do not show up. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
For either of these you can create an alternate version from the Change UPC / Locality section.

Scenario #1

If your version does not already exist, you can download a similar profile with the same Disc ID.  Then select from the File menu, DVD -> Change UPC/Locality..., and then click the Blue arrow button on the right side of the popup window.  From here, select "Create Alternate Version" and leave the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box unchecked.  Click OK, and then update the new profile to reflect your version.

Scenario #2

Same steps as above for the first movie.  For the second or subsequent follow-on movies, follow the above steps, but check the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box.



Thanks! This was most helpful.
If I may, there is one difference that might help people who find this. It's just DVD Menu - Change UPC/Locality. The File menu is not necessary (I'm using the PC version 4.0.0 Build 1762).

Thanks to you, I was able to compare the existing discs with what is already in the database. Some of them already existed under the same Disc ID (e.g. Disc #1 Smiles of a Summer Night). I added these profiles to my local box set and will upload the profile.

One other thing, for Scenario #2, it's important to Add By Title instead of adding by Disc ID. This is because a disc that contains 2 different films (e.g. Disc #8 which contains both "Scenes from a Marriage" and "Saraband") will only return the profiles for the first film on the disc when you add by Disc ID.

To check for profiles for the other films on the disc, you must try to add By Title. This will show you profiles for that title and you can then look for the same Disc ID as the first film on the disc. If you don't find a matching Disc ID using the title search, that's when you create a new profile.

As for the Disc ID Alternate Version, if I understand the concept correctly, I would only need to create that if I found a profile that had identical content but a different Disc ID (e.g. a single, stand-alone, Blu-ray release containing "Scenes from a Marriage" and "Saraband" plus identical extras but released as it's own product with it's own case and UPC, etc.). Does that sound right to you?
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
For either of these you can create an alternate version from the Change UPC / Locality section.

Scenario #1

If your version does not already exist, you can download a similar profile with the same Disc ID.  Then select from the File menu, DVD -> Change UPC/Locality..., and then click the Blue arrow button on the right side of the popup window.  From here, select "Create Alternate Version" and leave the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box unchecked.  Click OK, and then update the new profile to reflect your version.

Scenario #2

Same steps as above for the first movie.  For the second or subsequent follow-on movies, follow the above steps, but check the "Retain existing entry and create a clone" check box.


Hey, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here.
Can you please have a look?
I've posted the steps here on IMGUR: https://imgur.com/a/8sV5Fpk

If you don't mind, can you please confirm I'm doing the right thing?
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
For either of these you can create an alternate version from the Change UPC / Locality section.


A couple more questions, if you don't mind. The rules say this:

Quote:
If a Box Set contains discs of Bonus Material for individual films, do not create separate profiles for these discs. Add the information to the individual film’s profile as normal for a single film 2-Disc set. If there is a disc of Bonus Material for all films included in the Box-set, create a separate profile for this disc.


This boxed set I'm working on includes examples of both of these instances: 1 disc with a documentary about a single film (Disc #29 The Making of Fanny and Alexander) and 1 disc with extras for many of the films (Disc #30 Additional supplements - includes 6 different features).

Additionally, this box set include 2 versions of the film "Fanny and Alexander".
Disc #27 - Fanny and Alexander (TV Version)
Disc #28 - Fanny and Alexander (U.S. Theatrical Version)

Now, if I'm reading the rules correctly, I would expect to find Disc #29 listed as an "extra disc" on both Disc #27 and Disc #28. I would also expect to find a profile for Disc #30 that I can add to my collection and then link to box set.

However, I see that someone has created a profile for Disc #29 (against the rules).
Someone also created a profile for Disc #30 (appropriate) but they added to this a second disc for one of the 6 supplements that disc contains (against the rules).

My questions:
1. Do I need to report the profile for Disc #29 to someone? Just not sure what to do about that.
2. Should I go ahead and add the entry for Disc #29 to the related movies (Discs 27 and 28)?
3. Do I need to report the child profile for Disc #30 to someone?

Thanks for reading all this. It's a lot, I know, but I wanted to be thorough.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,864
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Check your profile to make certain that you have not locked the box set contents.  If that isn't the problem with downloading the child profiles, as a next step I'd run a database repair and try again.  Then if that didn't solve the issue with downloading the children, I'd delete the entire box set and add it to my collection again.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,864
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The Making of Fanny and Alexander gets its own disc because it is a separate film directed by Bergman, released four years after Fanny and Alexander.  So it's not a featurette, but a film in its own right.  So it having a separate profile is correct.

Also, ...But Film is My Mistress is not a featurette, but again, a separate film in its own right that was released at Cannes, just placed on the Additional Features disc because it's a film about Bergman rather than a film by Bergman.  As a film, it falls under the rule for "Bonus Feature Films" (found in the Disc Features section of the rules).  It is also a correct profile.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
The Making of Fanny and Alexander gets its own disc because it is a separate film directed by Bergman, released four years after Fanny and Alexander.  So it's not a featurette, but a film in its own right.  So it having a separate profile is correct.

Also, ...But Film is My Mistress is not a featurette, but again, a separate film in its own right that was released at Cannes, just placed on the Additional Features disc because it's a film about Bergman rather than a film by Bergman.  As a film, it falls under the rule for "Bonus Feature Films" (found in the Disc Features section of the rules).  It is also a correct profile.


Wow. Thanks again, Danae.
Is this rule about the supplemental being it's own film documented in the contribution rules somewhere? I cannot seem to find it.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Check your profile to make certain that you have not locked the box set contents.  If that isn't the problem with downloading the child profiles, as a next step I'd run a database repair and try again.  Then if that didn't solve the issue with downloading the children, I'd delete the entire box set and add it to my collection again.


I just tried all of these steps. None of them solved the entire problem.

It now adds these child profiles:
[li]Additional Supplements
Fanny and Alexander: The Theatrical Version
Scenes From a Marriage: U.S. Theatrical Version
The Making of Fanny and Alexander
Saraband[/li]

But the other 25 discs still do not show up as children.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting legolad:
Quote:
Is this rule about the supplemental being it's own film documented in the contribution rules somewhere? I cannot seem to find it.

It's on the Disc Features page, here, at the bottom of the page.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting legolad:
Quote:
Is this rule about the supplemental being it's own film documented in the contribution rules somewhere? I cannot seem to find it.

It's on the Disc Features page, here, at the bottom of the page.


Perfect! Thank you so much.
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting legolad:
Quote:
Is this rule about the supplemental being it's own film documented in the contribution rules somewhere? I cannot seem to find it.

It's on the Disc Features page, here, at the bottom of the page.


Quick question: I read this part of the rules to mean that the Main Film gets its own profile while the documentary about that film also gets its own profile. The documentary profile is then added to the Main Film as a child profile and the Main Film is added as a child profile of the box set like this:

- Box Set Profile
      - Film 1 Profile (child)
          - Film 1 Documentary Profile (child)
      - Film 2 Profile (child)

Do I have this right?
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlegolad
Registered: April 24, 2008
United States Posts: 15
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:

It's on the Disc Features page, here, at the bottom of the page.



Hey T!M and Danae,

Sorry if I'm being dense here, but when I re-read this rule, it sounds like it says the opposite of what you are telling me.

Quote:
Do not confuse "Bonus Feature Films" with "Any video documentary material regarding the film, or those associated with it." Those are Featurettes. 


It even gives examples:
Quote:
Some examples of Bonus Feature Films are:
Previous movie versions, example "Ben-Hur: Four-Disc Collector's Edition" which includes the 1925 version.
Companion movie bonuses, example "Season of the Witch" which includes "There's Always Vanilla" from the same director.


"The Making of Fanny and Alexander" is absolutely "video documentary material regarding the film". The rule makes no mention of whether or not such film has been released on its own or anything like that.

Perhaps this rule needs to be updated?
"Jungle Red!"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,864
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Quoting legolad:
Quote:
Perhaps this rule needs to be updated?


Because Ken is no longer involved with the maintenance of the forum, the rules will never be updated.

Therefore, we have to infer meaning with what we have. 
Quote:
Do not confuse "Bonus Feature Films" with "Any video documentary material regarding the film, or those associated with it." Those are Featurettes.


If we look at Merriam Webster, a featurette is defined as "a short film; especially : a short documentary film about the making of a full-length movie"  Wikipedia quotes the book Movie Money: Understanding Hollywood's (Creative) Accounting Practices that a featurette is "a brief documentary film covering one or more aspects of the film creation process." In other words, a featurette is a short or brief documentary about the making of the film, and neither full-length film in question fills that definition. 

For me, the other key is the word "video."  My take on that part of the rule is that a featurette is something that has been created or included for the video (DVD/blu-ray) release of the film.  Both of these were not created for that purpose, but were released as theatrical films in their own right. 

Now, that's my take on it.  Do I wish that we could get Ken's or Gerri's clarification?  Yes.  But we can't.  We can only work with what we've got.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
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