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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Country of Origin - how to decide?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Graveworm:
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This is just my opinion but it's not about who had the most to do with getting the film made and certainly not about money. It's country of ORIGIN not country of prduction. A lot of the money would have come from bank loans and those banks would have reviewed their investment almost as much as a production company they have nothing to do with country of origin.
Origin is where a film starts. If a group of people are commisioned by a company to make a film then thats when the film originates and the country of the commisioning company is the country of origin, if a group of people or companies put together a film project then pitch that to a company to get the money then that company is not the country of origin it's the group who put the project together.



That's all nice and warm and fuzzy, but it doesn't deal with the legalities, and thus don't feed the bulldog.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantGraveworm
Registered: April 7, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 357
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Quoting Rifter:
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But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.

COUNTRY of ORIGIN not COUNTRY of money.  Otherwise we are back to all Sony pictures being Japanese. Lets look at what origin means "the point where something begins or arises" usually the money comes a long way after that so nothing to do with the origin unless it happens to be one and the same.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Graveworm:
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Quoting Rifter:
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But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.

COUNTRY of ORIGIN not COUNTRY of money.  Otherwise we are back to all Sony pictures being Japanese. Lets look at what origin means "the point where something begins or arises" usually the money comes a long way after that so nothing to do with the origin unless it happens to be one and the same.


Oh, come on, we're talking about the movie business, not a dictionary definition.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
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Just as a followup, I checked the Turner Classic Movie DB, and this is what THEY say:

Production company:  New Line Cinema Wing Nut Films

So, it would appear they formed a subsidiary of New Line for this project, a very common practice, btw.

Distribution company:  New Line Cinema

Country:  New Zealand AND United States.

So, this one has a dual citizenship.  This is a good illustration why this a problematic entry in Profiler.  You can't assign both, so it comes down to a ping pong match and who has the most patriotic fervor.

That just tips the balance to the money side even more for me.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Might as well just do it Rifters way.

FROM NOW ON ALL MOVIES ARE USA CoO.

That will at least save on the ping pong.

Steve
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting snarbo:
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Might as well just do it Rifters way.

FROM NOW ON ALL MOVIES ARE USA CoO.

That will at least save on the ping pong.

Steve


Nah..,. Just the good ones  
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
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Quoting snarbo:
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Might as well just do it Rifters way.

FROM NOW ON ALL MOVIES ARE USA CoO.

That will at least save on the ping pong.

Steve


I didn't say that, and I resent the implication that I did.  Do you people bother to even read any more?

How many times do I have to say I don't care what country is the origin for you to get it?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
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OK - here's another example;

A Fistful of Dollars is first credited with Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US production company, yes?), but clearly the CoO on this one would be Italy if we should ignore the first credited studio as the CoO basis?

So - the fact remains - we need some clear cut rules as to which CoO to submit....
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
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But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.


So what you're saying is if a businessman paid a sculptor to make a sculpture for his offices, that businessman would be allowed to say that he sculpted it? He paid for it after all, the sculptor only made it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting Berak:
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So - the fact remains - we need some clear cut rules as to which CoO to submit....


We do - Gerri says we use the country of the primary production company. What we don't have is a set definition of what a production company is. I'll give you a clue though, it's not necessarily the company that forked all the money out!

Although, at a danger of going off-topic, all this could be avoided if we were allowed multiple countries of origin.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
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Quoting northbloke:
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Quoting Rifter:
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But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.


So what you're saying is if a businessman paid a sculptor to make a sculpture for his offices, that businessman would be allowed to say that he sculpted it? He paid for it after all, the sculptor only made it!


No, he could say he CAUSED IT TO BE MADE, not that he made it himself.  Nobody is saying Peter Jackson shouldn't get credit as producer and director, or that Wing Nut didn't produce it; but New Line CAUSED IT TO BE MADE and that is the difference.  Now, you could say 'yeah, but anybody could've put up the dough' but then it wouldn't be the same movie, would it?  New Line took a HUGE chance on a relatively unknown director and put up an amount that would have put them out of business if those movies hadn't been the monster hits they were.  Nobody else would've taken that risk, so it would have been a different movie (one, not three in particular).  Even Jackson has acknowledged that fact.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
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Quoting Berak:
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So - the fact remains - we need some clear cut rules as to which CoO to submit....


We do - Gerri says we use the country of the primary production company. What we don't have is a set definition of what a production company is. I'll give you a clue though, it's not necessarily the company that forked all the money out!

Although, at a danger of going off-topic, all this could be avoided if we were allowed multiple countries of origin.



Then what is the point of the field in the first place?  You can just as easily put that information in the Notes block.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
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No, he could say he CAUSED IT TO BE MADE, not that he made it himself.  Nobody is saying Peter Jackson shouldn't get credit as producer and director, or that Wing Nut didn't produce it; but New Line CAUSED IT TO BE MADE and that is the difference.  Now, you could say 'yeah, but anybody could've put up the dough' but then it wouldn't be the same movie, would it?  New Line took a HUGE chance on a relatively unknown director and put up an amount that would have put them out of business if those movies hadn't been the monster hits they were.  Nobody else would've taken that risk, so it would have been a different movie (one, not three in particular).  Even Jackson has acknowledged that fact.

Now - THIS is a point worth taking into consideration!

Well put Rifter!! 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
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Although, at a danger of going off-topic, all this could be avoided if we were allowed multiple countries of origin.

And this might well do the job a lot easier - but if they were to add multiple options in CoO they would have to range them aplhabetically, or else we would have a hell of a time arguing which country should be on top...   
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoombear
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Berak:
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Although, at a danger of going off-topic, all this could be avoided if we were allowed multiple countries of origin.


And this might well do the job a lot easier - but if they were to add multiple options in CoO they would have to range them aplhabetically, or else we would have a hell of a time arguing which country should be on top...   

There's that too - look how we sometimes argue about the order of Genres.

I asked Ken for multiple Country of Origin fields in March, but he had some legal matters to take care of back then...

People keep referring to Gerri explaining what the field meant, but if it's not in the Contribution Rules, I hesitate to follow any forum postings from anybody, as there are many contributors who don't even visit the forums, so the Rules should be the sole guideline.
 Last edited: by Doombear
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Unicus69:
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  That makes no sense at all. 


Then I guess there is no hope for you at all. I feel so sorry for you. Conversation closed.


You are confusing 'feeling' insulted with 'seeing' an insult.  That is why your statement makes no sense.  Had I said I was offended by your comment, then it might have made sense.  Difficult concept to grasp but please give it a try.

As for feeling sorry for me, save that for yourself.  I am not the one throwing around generalized insults then pretending I didn't do it.  At least be man enough to stand behind what you said and quit trying to make it seem like it was my fault for being intelligent enough to spot the insult. 

Now the conversation is closed. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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