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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Third party database, Question!
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantShona
Registered: May 31, 2007
Germany Posts: 5
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So i hope you all understand what i mean because my english is bad.

I make a Contribution of the Film "Music & Lyrics" (Mitten ins Herz:  Ein Song für dich).

This is what i wrote:

Profile completed with all Information; Source: DVD Credits
Uncredited Cast from imdb.com


Now the Contribution is "Declined" because of the third party database imdb.com that i used for the uncredited Cast. But what can i used for the Uncredited Cast as an third party Database?

funny is that i got "5 Yes" and "0 No" with No Comment.

So what is that for a damn rule that i can not use a third party database for the uncredited cast.
i can't suck the cast from my fingers, i need a third party database.

Angel200
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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It got declined because you used only one 3rd party database.
You need to find a number of databases that all agree that those people are in the film (I would quote at least three).
Otherwise, if you don't recognise them yourself then you can't add them.
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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Third party database data is not allowed because it would be illegal for us to accept it and we respect The rights of those databases.

Uncredited cast is not required to be entered.  Enter uncredited cast only where you can independently identify them and document them.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantShona
Registered: May 31, 2007
Germany Posts: 5
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
It got declined because you used only one 3rd party database.
You need to find a number of databases that all agree that those people are in the film (I would quote at least three).
Otherwise, if you don't recognise them yourself then you can't add them.

No it was declined because i used the 3rd party database.  

Here the Note:
An invalid source, such as a third party database, was listed in the contribution notes. Use of a third party database is not allowed per the contribution rules.

But i cant find the Rule, i read it more than one time and i cant find it!

Angel200
 Last edited: by Shona
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhevanw
Registered: March 18, 2007
Belgium Posts: 426
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As indicated by Ken already: it's all a matter of respecting Copyrights. The last thing we want is Invelos getting sued by IMDB because their data is widely copied into the Invelos database.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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As Ken says, Angel, you are absolutely correct. You MUST verify EACH and every (uncredited) entry you make. This may mean such things as time stamps, screen caps, perhaps the (uncredited) actor is mentioned in some of the special features of the disc. But ANY third party databse is verbotten. This is also rather clearly delineated in the Contribution Rules, I suggest you familiarize yourself with them.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Angel:

Try reading the Introduction, which is the FIRST page of the Rules. You will find the following.

"The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.  Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover.  In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGadgeteer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 519
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's also ok to use sources from the web as long as it's not from a database type site (eg IMdB).
Stuart
 Last edited: by Gadgeteer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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It's a bit more complicated than that. Because english is not your first language it's understandable that it causes some confusion.
If you only look at one database then you are "using" that database's information - and that is not allowed - see Ken's post.
If you look at a lot of databases and they all agree that the information is correct then you are "referencing" those databases. I still would not recommend it for uncredited cast, but it is allowed for other information like RRP or release dates etc.

The rule mentioned is on the introduction page of the rules, it says:
Quote:

The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.  Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover.  In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.


Edit: quite a few posts while I was typing this! But it stills makes some sort of sense   
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Gadgeteer:
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's also ok to use sources from the web as long as it's not from a database type site (eg IMdB).


Stuart:

You could use a source as reference, but that does not alleviate verifying it via the methods outlined above and others which I may not have mentioned, after all the refernce source could be wrong for any number of reasons.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDarxon
Vescere bracis meis
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 742
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Especially regarding uncredited cast entries, IMO those should only be allowed if the contributor can verify their correctness by mentioning the time of appearance in the respective movie, best followed by a confirming information from the special features included in the DVD or a biography or other publicly available non-internet data.

IMO most of these entries are completely useless as virtually no one can see the actors unless they're famous enough for individual visual confirmation. What is the value of knowing George Miller [random name, not necessarily correct, substitute with whatever name suits you] played a "Bystander at Parade"?

In the event of a formerly unknown but later risen to stardom actor, it shouldn't be too hard to find him in older films as well and visually confirm him or find reliable source material to prove the claim. Clint Eastwood's second performance as a Fighter Pilot in 1955's "Tarantula" comes to mind: he is NOT visually recognizable, but his appearance is well documented in biographies galore, so that's sourced beyond any reasonable doubt. A more recent example of a valuable uncredited entry is Owen Wilson in "Night at the Museum": He's easily recognizable, and his addition to the cast list offers valuable information, as his role isn't even a small one.

But except for those visually recognizable appearances, what's the use of having this kind of information in the first place? You know that the person mentioned might be in the movie (as most of the times the entries stem from the pre-ban-IMDB era at IVS) but you can't find them easily enough. It's like a "Schnitzeljagd" trying to pin them down if you're actually looking for them, as most of the times the role description is very vague.

Just my 2 ct.
Lutz
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