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  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 ...8  Previous   Next
Discussion on Credited As field (Locked)
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantchibul
formerly abrg923
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.


You're not being dense. That's the point. Ken has stated this is the way he wants things done. He's gone on record with that, and with the fact that he'd like us as a community to help establish guidelines for the Master Names. (The starting point.) That's what we should be doing.
"I am Andrew Ryan and I am here to ask you a question:
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?

No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something
different. I chose the impossible. I chose…
Rapture."
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantchibul
formerly abrg923
Registered: March 13, 2007
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And if anyone missed it in the other thread, here's Ken's post that stated just that.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Still working on the site fix, but just to chime in, I do not want to alter the meaning of the Credited As field from what is stated in the current rules.  The system was chosen since it allows for connecting any credit.  An alias system also works well in cases where an actor changes names (e.g gets married), but doesn't work well with 1-off credits.  The Credited As works well for both.

I do see the point of contention with "true" names for the actors, but had expected that we could come up with a set of guidelines with community input. 

That said, if we missed the mark on this feature, I'm also open to program changes to support an alias system.  Possibly the two can coexist, with Credited As used for 1-off credits.

Feedback is welcome.

Thanks, Ken
"I am Andrew Ryan and I am here to ask you a question:
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?

No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something
different. I chose the impossible. I chose…
Rapture."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.


Neil (Neill  ):

That's what I am trying to determine.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Again, hal it's all in how one defines accuracy. Accuracy against what yardstick.

Skip


In this case, I was referring to the accuracy in properly parsing the name into the correct fields rather than mindlessly assigning first word to first name field, second word to middle name field and third word to last name field.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That brings up another issue:

The "Helena Bonham Carter" or "Courtney Cox Arquette" problem.  We need to have a hard and fast rule for determining what slot each part of the name is placed in.

It's my opinion that unless there is an actual physical indicator in the name, namely a HYPHEN, one must place the "middle" part of the name in the "Middle Name" slot for consistency.  There is no definitive way to prove beyond a doubt that someone has a compound last name if there is no indicator of that fact IN the name itself.  And, if the credits don't show it that way, it shouldn't be entered that way, some opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, but I don't care.  It's consistent, and that's more important.


There's that "consistency vs accuracy" argument again.

You want consistency; I want accuracy.  Consistent data is useless if it's wrong!


Accuracy doesn't mean spit if you can't track it from record to record.  I NEVER said I didn't want accuracy.  But, I also know how a relational database is SUPPOSED to work, and data consistency (the data that is actually STORED) is more important than technical accuracy.

Let's say Actor A has fifteen different variations of his name that are in cast lists.  Being consistent with how you enter any actor's name makes it EASY to be accurate down the line with how you PRESENT information for viewing.  You make the output do the work, not the data entry people.


When you advocate parsing Helena Bonham Carter into Helena/Bonham/Carter instead of Helena//Bonham Carter, then you are in fact saying that you are not interested in accuracy; you are only interested in data entry consistency.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.


The "Credited As" field is not the issue.  I think everyone understands exactly what that means as we've been doing that in 2.5 and earlier for a very long time.

It is the "Master Name" filed that the "fuss" is about.  How will this field be determined?  This is the filed that will actually link all of the "Credited As" names to each other so that you see all of the films that that person appeared in.  It is VERY important to get it right!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.


Neil (Neill  ):

That's what I am trying to determine.

Skip


What are you trying to determine?    It is as he says it is.  When you view the cast list outside of edit mode you see the 'as credited' name.  You do not see the master name in the cast list.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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That is what I have been waiting to see, Unicus. Bless you my son!!!!

So for example

Dan Craig as James Bond---Credited as Daniel Craig

would appear as

Daniel Craig as James Bond

Yes?

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Yes?

Yes.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
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Yes.

As I said earlier, I have been playing with this in my local.  I haven't uploaded anything because we need to discuss master names...but yes, that is how it will look.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Now if you clowns would get over yourselves and try to comprehend my concerns and issues instead of adopting a "Skip opened his mouth let's slap him around" attitude, we'll be able to get a lot further a lot faster.

If I interpreted what you are saying correctly, again , many thanks.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Now if you clowns would get over yourselves and try to comprehend my concerns and issues instead of adopting a "Skip opened his mouth let's slap him around" attitude, we'll be able to get a lot further a lot faster.

If I interpreted what you are saying correctly, again , many thanks.

Skip


Please let's not start this name calling over here! 
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Now if you clowns would get over yourselves and try to comprehend my concerns and issues instead of adopting a "Skip opened his mouth let's slap him around" attitude, we'll be able to get a lot further a lot faster.


Oh come one...that's what us clowns do best.  We have clown only   just to figure out the best ways to slap you around...open hand, back hand, ring or no ring, etc...


Quote:
If I interpreted what you are saying correctly, again , many thanks.


Seriously though, it is actually a pretty cool feature.  If you single click the name in the cast list, the 'Actor Information' box will show the master name.  If you double click, it brings up all films with the master name and any film, where they are credited differently, that are linked to that master name.

The hard part, and I am sure we can figure out a way to solve this, is determining the master name and getting the other names linked to it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Now if you clowns would get over yourselves and try to comprehend my concerns and issues instead of adopting a "Skip opened his mouth let's slap him around" attitude, we'll be able to get a lot further a lot faster.

If I interpreted what you are saying correctly, again , many thanks.

Skip


Please let's not start this name calling over here! 


Who called names, hal. You are one of the bashers, CAN IT and your self-righteous attitude NOW. Enough is ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpdf256
PC, iOS and Android
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Am I missing something? Or being dense?

With the new 'credited as' feature, the cast list still displays the name as it appears in the credits - as the rules have always stated it should do.

It's only the name you pick as the starting point that is different.

Surely, as long as the cast list display is a replica of the film credits that's all that matters?

As I said, I may be being a little dense, but I don't see what the fuss is all about.


Neil (Neill  ):

That's what I am trying to determine.

Skip

But Skip, it just does not matter. Even if well all pick our own way to enter an actors name we are no worse off then we were in the past with DVDP 2.5. But if we can work as a team and pick names that we all can use, the system will work.

As an 'expert' on databases you should know that the 'key' can be anything, we could use the actors name backwards and it all would work fine as long as the 'as credited' field is filled out with the right data.

pdf
Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
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