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Quoting synner_man:

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In my opinion, your number 3 should be switched.  It should be step 1, where we use screen order (which is usually Family/Given), with a checkbox for those who want it Westernized.

All I know is that if the choice is made that we have to go with backwards-way of putting Given Name/Family Name in the list, despite the credits, then have to use the Credited as system to get it right... well, that will be the end of my contributing Asian cast and crew.  Too much stupid work for something that can be handled simply.

Interesting idea. The reason I chose to word it the way I did was because the fields are already called frist/middle/last. Doing it the way I described would mean that all given names (western and asian) and all family names would end up in the same fields. The checkbox I described would affect only the order they were displayed.
To be honest, if we were told to use "credited as" I would have great difficulty with that also. It would involve an incredible amount of work for very little result. But I felt that as it is an option it was only fair to include it.

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Has anyone else PMd Ken asking for guidance on this? I don't want to bother him if someone else has already done it.

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I don't know that it is a bother.  Neither he, nor Gerri, have ever complained when I have asked for their input.  I understand that we would rather they work on new features, but this is an important issue that affects a lot of people and an answer should not take that long to give.

The important thing is to give them all the information in a concise and unbiased manner.  Don't make them wade through 9 pages.  I made that mistake with Gerri once and, by the time she got to the end of the thread, she had no idea what the original issue was.

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Hi Ken, I was wondering if you could give us some advice on how best to enter Asian names into Profiler.
The problem at the moment is that Asian names are ordered differently to Western names.
To use a famous example: Chow Yun Fat. Chow is his family name (as in Cole) and Yun Fat is his given name (as in Ken). So if your name was Asian it would be written Cole Ken, not Ken Cole.
The three name fields: "first/middle/last" suggest that the family name goes in the last name field, and the given name is placed in the first & middle fields (whatever is appropriate). I feel this is suggested because when you look at the cast & crew lists in the Edit window, they are ordered by last name, not first. It is also suggested by the fact that we keep double-barrelled names together in one field.
This is causing a conflict in the data entry, as some are entering "Chow" in the first name and "Yun Fat" in the last name, and others are doing the opposite with some using "credited as" to show the reversal on screen.
So far, four paths have been suggested. They are (in no particular order):

- enter the name as seen on screen (Chow//Yun Fat), ignoring the fact that Chow is a family name. Upside: easiest to implement, downside: name would be listed under Y, not C and would mean family names (Western and Asian) would be stored in different fields.

- enter the name following western given/family pattern (Yun Fat//Chow) along with an update to the software (possibly a checkbox) allowing the order to be swapped on screen when needed. Upside: allows all family names (Asian and Western) to be in the same data field but still have the name shown as credited. Downside: impossible to implement without a software update.

- enter the name following western given/family pattern (Yun Fat//Chow) and use "credited as" to show the reversed order on screen. Upside: as above. Downside: the biggest workload and would need to be used for almost all Asian names, ruining the CLT results.

- enter the name as seen on screen (Chow//Yun Fat) along with a software update to allow the name to be shown in the Western order when needed. Upside: less checkboxes to tick than the above software option, more closely matches the current data, downside: family names would be in mixed fields, though maybe the sort used to be changed to take the checkbox into account, needs a software change.


I hope I've managed to convey the problem we have without confusing you too much. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. It would be great if you could clear this up for us.