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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 ...6  Previous   Next
Spelling of cast/crew names
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttony_m
Registered: June 12, 2007
Greece Posts: 7
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Hi,

Possibly a newbie question, It's my first post here. Apologies if this has already been discussed already, I couldn't find anything relevant while searching...

I have noticed that some of my DVDs have non-English spellings for Cast/Crew names depending on the locality of the DVD. Would it be acceptable to update the non-English spelling of these names to English and contribute the updates?

One example is Director "Theo Angelopoulos" in US/UK releases, which is spelled with an accent on French releases "Théo Angelopoulos".

I think it would be easier for everybody to standardise in the same spelling for cast members in order to make searches easier.

Tony.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Hi...
Welcome to the forum.

No... you couldn't do that as we do not do any kind of standardizing of any kind in the cast/crew.. we go by as they are credited in the end credits.

There is a common name function in the program... but the way you determine the common name is the most commonly credited form from the end credits using the credit look-up tool on this site.

One thing I would strongly suggest is going over the RULES before doing any contributions. and also when you do contributions you need to be sure to source all your changes/additions in the contribution notes.

As long as you follow the rules as written and add good contribution notes with your sources you should have very little trouble getting contributions accepted.
Pete
 Last edited: by Addicted2DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Tony:

As Pete said we use only the film credits. There are databases that try to "standadize", they are notoriously inaccurate because they have no Rules, whose standardization would be used. Hang around here long enough and you will find that iwould be impossible, we simply use the data from the film credits, exactly as they are listed and in exactly the same order.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quote:
No... you couldn't do that as we do not do any kind of standardizing of any kind in the cast/crew.. we go by as they are credited in the end credits.


There is an exception to this.  If the credits are in all caps, you can use the standard capitalization rules from that actor/director's country.

Using your example, if he is credited 'THEO ANGELOPOULOS', you can enter him 'Théo Angelopoulos'...as long as you can document that it is the proper lower case version of his name.

If, however, he is credited as you wrote it...'Theo Angelopoulos'...then that is how he has to be entered.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Unicus:

That is under re-consideration by Ken and Gerri and they have not settled it.

I will say what I always say and what I had in mind at the time. Cope exactkly what you SEE, not what you imagine, make the lower case adjustment, but add or subtract NO data that ACTUALLY appears On Screen.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttony_m
Registered: June 12, 2007
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I have just checked the credits of the French DVD release in question, where he is credited as "THEO ANGELOPOULOS". However the DVD cover and some of the extras list the name as "Théo Angelopoulos"

Based on last post by Skip ("add or subtract no data"), I am guessing that the correct lower case adjustment would be "Theo" and not "Théo", right?

Assuming that the accent would have also existed on the credited capitalised name, if it was needed. But I'm not familiar with French grammar, so not sure if they drop accents when they capitalize.

Tony
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I would say yes until Ken and Gerri have settled upon an answer. That is what was intended by the Rules, Tony.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantlmoelleb
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Unicus:

That is under re-consideration by Ken and Gerri and they have not settled it.

I think I missed this one and was not able to find any post from Gerri indicating the rule is not still in effect. Could you please point me to it.

Quote:

I will say what I always say and what I had in mind at the time. Cope exactkly what you SEE, not what you imagine, make the lower case adjustment, but add or subtract NO data that ACTUALLY appears On Screen.

Skip


Tony,
in case you didn't notice, you kind of stepped into a mine field here.

Skip is having the opinion that accents are something that are added to letters (so ´ is added to e making it é). Hence his opinion is that converting for example THEO to Théo adds additional data (the ´) that is not present on the screen, and hence is the result of a personaly interpretation of the data.

Others (my self included) are not agreeing, as there is no one to one mapping between uppercase and lowercase characters in all languages. For example are accents typically not used on uppercase characters in French, meaning the uppercase of é is E, while the lowercase of E is either e or é (there are more variants of course, but this will do for the example). With the two possible lowercase interpretations of "E", it is my opinion that you are making a personal choice no matter which one you choose, meaning neither "e" or "é" is more "neutral" than the other, and hence sticking to "e" does not give a more accurate database, but it does make it less usefull for people in a number of countries.
Regards
Lars
 Last edited: by lmoelleb
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttony_m
Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:

There is an exception to this.  If the credits are in all caps, you can use the standard capitalization rules from that actor/director's country.


Lars,

Assuming that the "capitalization rules from the director's country" is the accepted view, I would argue that "Theo" is the correct spelling as there are no accents in Greek.

Of course the original spelling using the Greek alphabet is different, but most Greeks use a single Latin alphabet spelling of their name with no accents. This is supported by the director's own website, the French version of his biography spells his name as "Theo" (French Bio here)

If we were talking about a French actor/director, I agree that the French spelling should apply.

Regards, Tony
 Last edited: by tony_m
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
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This example is an outstanding example of why the ORIGINAL intent should be followed and I trust that Ken and gerrin will ultimately agree. this a case of mass hallucination onn the part of the French and inserting diacriticals where NONE exist in actuyality. Though if it appears ON SCREEN it should be included regardless. It is after all largely the Freench who raised the big fuss over this issue, even attempting to raise that FRANCOIS should be François, which is patently UNTRUE, it MAY be François, it may NOT be as well.

I remain unopposed to using the CA system to deal with issues pertaining to culture. But I am unalterably opposed to departing from the departing from the design concept for cultural issues.

Skip
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Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
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Quoting tony_m:
Quote:
If we were talking about a French actor/director, I agree that the French spelling should apply.


research has shown that French spelling not allways apply even in France. You still have names (first and last) that don't follow French spelling. (When it becomes to citizens following the rules, you always have the exeption to the rules) 
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantlmoelleb
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I so hope we get Unicode support soon.

Then we can start removing all the dots over  the "i", where it has been added when following American cultural standards when converting "I" to lowercase.
Regards
Lars
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Are we required to use the end credits only? Or can we use the DVD itself to resolve some of the uppercase to lowercase questions?

Quoting tony_m:
Quote:
I have just checked the credits of the French DVD release in question, where he is credited as "THEO ANGELOPOULOS". However the DVD cover and some of the extras list the name as "Théo Angelopoulos"

...


In the past, when an end credit was difficult to read, we have used DVD extras to assist us in resolving these problems. There is no third party database that we use -- just the DVD in question. It seems to me, if the end credits are in all caps, but an extra feature on the DVD itself shows that THEO is, in fact, Théo, then it can be entered into the master database as Théo. This seems similar to our capitalisation problem on the original Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, where Skip agreed that the cast list in the DVD features could be used to resolve the problem.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
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Through the CA system...fine.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Through the CA system...fine.

Skip


Except the CA system isn't designed to be used this way.  I understand you are trying to reach a compromise, but I don't think distorting the purpose of the CA field is the answer.  JMHO
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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It's better than perverting the very foundation of the Rules.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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