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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi common name |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I just don't see how a few people doing it differently than the majority is going to fix things. I guess we will have to wait and see.  I think that the people who do the CLT drill-downs and the people who frequent the forums and are aware of the common name threads, while a small number, actually do most of the common name adjustments. It's rare that I see a common name adjustment from a name I don't recognize. The benefit of the common name threads is that anyone who uses the names determined in those threads will not have to re-do the work later when the CLT results flip. Those following the IMDb-laden data of the CLT will, in many cases, have to re-do the work later. Many thanks to those who do the common name threads. It's a shame that this one got hijacked. I think we need a new thread for Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi. This one could be renamed as a (re-)debate thread. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The thread did not get hijacked, it comes from your failure to understand what this one was about.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
The thread did not get hijacked, it comes from your failure to understand what this one was about.
Skip It's a common name thread like so many others in this forum, many of which were started by the same user. The OP is quite clear. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: April 3, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,998 |
| | Posted: | | | | So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them? if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it  |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it Not at all, I'd rather have accurate info. So please continue  | | | | Last edited: by Ardos |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it No, "we" aren't saying that. There are some who want to debate the issues over and over, but from what I've seen, if you make a contribution and cite one of the common name threads as your source for superseding the raw results of the CLT, it will be approved. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it
No, "we" aren't saying that. There are some who want to debate the issues over and over, but from what I've seen, if you make a contribution and cite one of the common name threads as your source for superseding the raw results of the CLT, it will be approved. Exactly, I haven't seen one get declined yet (unless there was something else wrong with it). |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it No, that's what just one or two people are saying. The rest of us is perfectly happy with these common name finding threads - including the screeners, who consistently accept common name changes based on these threads time and time again. Edit: I see was a minute or two too late...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it
No, "we" aren't saying that. There are some who want to debate the issues over and over, but from what I've seen, if you make a contribution and cite one of the common name threads as your source for superseding the raw results of the CLT, it will be approved. you continue to misunderstand this particular issue. Let me give you a hint, the OP got it BACKWARDS. He didn't start the thread get the results and then make the contribution. It really does help when you comprehend .You as well, tim, since you obviously missed it as well. The OP made assumptions, much as others do, he did not try to get answers of verification FIRST. Some of us caught on to those assumptions and voted accordingly. Only THEN did the OP decide to come to the forums and start a thread, and initially he was not seeking verification but support for his ASSUMPTIONS. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kluge Quote:
Sorry Skip, but if we reed the CLT results we can clearly see that the common name is Kan, because it appear in 4 title, while "kan" is only in 2 title...
I'm confused. You can only see that "clearly" because there are so few titles involved. For the subject case, Hiroshi Kan/"Kan" Ikeuchi, there are only a 23 raw titles in the database where HKI is credited (17 as "Kan" and 6 as Kan). It is relatively easy to show that if you consider "actual" titles and eliminate "duplicates" you have only 2 occurences of "Kan" and 4 of Kan. It isn't always so easy. If we look at an actor who has many more appearances, we could end up with many pages of data for each variant. Do you honestly expect people to go to the trouble of scrubbing these data for the same "actual" titles instead of using the raw data? The argument about only counting actual (unique) titles presumes that someone will go to the trouble of determining what those unique titles are. But that seems to me to entail a lot more work than Ken has said we need to do. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Quoting Kluge
Do you honestly expect people to go to the trouble of scrubbing these data for the same "actual" titles instead of using the raw data? The argument about only counting actual (unique) titles presumes that someone will go to the trouble of determining what those unique titles are. But that seems to me to entail a lot more work than Ken has said we need to do. Nobody is expecting anybody to scrub through all that data. You can take it as the CLT presents it to you. This is kinda like a partial contribution, but when somebody actually does the work, why reject it IF it is well documented. After all, Ken (Cole) has said that the common name is a moving target and also said that the CLT isn't to be blindly trusted. (That is also why i would love for T!M to give a little bit more in his notes when establishing a common name. With good documentation it would also be easier for others to propagate the common name to other profiles. But this is another discussion) | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | | Last edited: by reybr |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Quoting Kluge
Do you honestly expect people to go to the trouble of scrubbing these data for the same "actual" titles instead of using the raw data? The argument about only counting actual (unique) titles presumes that someone will go to the trouble of determining what those unique titles are. But that seems to me to entail a lot more work than Ken has said we need to do.
Nobody is expecting anybody to scrub through all that data. You can take it as the CLT presents it to you. This is kinda like a partial contribution, but when somebody actually does the work, why reject it IF it is well documented. After all, Ken (Cole) has said that the common name is a moving target and also said that the CLT isn't to be blindly trusted. (That is also why i would love for T!M to give a little bit more in his notes when establishing a common name. With good documentation it would also be easier for others to propagate the common name to other profiles. But this is another discussion) Surely you jset, reybr.  I agree with you on all counts, But as i explained the OP made assumptions his documentation was not clear, because of his assumptions, and therefore he got No votes. Then he decided to come here, again not to verification of the data, bu simply to gain support for his assumptions. I have said numerous times, I don't like to vote No, but I do expect notes to be clear and informative AND the data to be correct. Changes made to a Profile based on assumptions or Notes which do NOT communicate efectively will always draw a NO vote...no matter how much i might wish to vote Yes.<shrugs> Assumptions belong in only one place and it is not in the Online. Assumptions are no different from user-preference, imagination, call it what you will. But it is NOT based upon data, we are given CLT results, THAT is data, none of US have the ability to make a blanket statement that because Title A has this credits, then ALL copies of Title A regardless of version, region or locality are the same, that is bogus and introduces errors into the database...that is KNOWN for absolute certainty. Even Tim with his crystal ball cannot make such a claim globally though he clearly thinks he can. Had the OP seen this issue, and BEFORE making his Contribution; come here started a thread seeking verification of the titles which he does not possess, and yes that menas any copy of AVP which he does not OWN, they ALL need to be verified, then made the Contribution based on the results of that thread and cross-referenced the thread, then he more than likely would have gotten Yes votes. He simply got the cart before the horse...that simple. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 71 |
| | Posted: | | | | CLT or not CLT. But is all Hiroshi 's puppeteer credits correct? Where can we take puppeteer credits from? Cast section, Crew section or both? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
and yes that menas any copy of AVP which he does not OWN, they ALL need to be verified There is one problem with that point of view. Ken (Cole again) has said that the number of titles are the important thing to consider. If all the AVP2s had been entered with the correct original title (which is the field the CLT looks at) the count of titles would be a lot different whick again would make the verification of the credit from all the AVP2 profiles redundant. @DigitalGhost: I have really no idea or preference regarding that issue. Hopefully other have | | |
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | | Last edited: by reybr |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,198 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I just don't see how a few people doing it differently than the majority is going to fix things. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I think that the people who do the CLT drill-downs and the people who frequent the forums and are aware of the common name threads, while a small number, actually do most of the common name adjustments. It's rare that I see a common name adjustment from a name I don't recognize. I have actually seen quite a few contributions from people I don't recognize...that is the reason I brought it up in the first place. Quote:
The benefit of the common name threads is that anyone who uses the names determined in those threads will not have to re-do the work later when the CLT results flip.
Those following the IMDb-laden data of the CLT will, in many cases, have to re-do the work later. I have to disagree with you on this point, at least for myself, once I have submitted a profile with a 'credited as', I am done with it. I do not go back to check if the results have changed. I am willing to bet that is the rule, for those that simply follow the CLT, rather than the exception. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,198 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
So are we saying that all the threads trying to find the actual common name should now be ignored and simply follow whatever the CLT says is the common name and use BY's to separate them?
if that's the way people want it then thats how I'll do it
No, "we" aren't saying that. There are some who want to debate the issues over and over, but from what I've seen, if you make a contribution and cite one of the common name threads as your source for superseding the raw results of the CLT, it will be approved. I hope I am not being lumped into this 'some people' group but, just so we are clear, I honestly don't care what you guys do I was just trying to understand how two groups, using a different standard, could achieve the same goal. I still don't understand it, though I do appreciate forget's attempst at explaining it. You guys seem to think it will happen so, keep on keeping on. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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