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Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi common name
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 13,178
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Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
CLT or not CLT.  But is all Hiroshi 's puppeteer credits correct? Where can we take puppeteer credits from? Cast section, Crew section or both?

From the rules:

For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film.

If puppeteers are included in the end credits include them and append (puppeteer) at the end of the role.

Based on that, puppeteers can only be included if they are part of the cast list.  If they are in the crew section, then they are left out.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quote:
The benefit of the common name threads is that anyone who uses the names determined in those threads will not have to re-do the work later when the CLT results flip.

Those following the IMDb-laden data of the CLT will, in many cases, have to re-do the work later.

I have to disagree with you on this point, at least for myself, once I have submitted a profile with a 'credited as', I am done with it.  I do not go back to check if the results have changed.  I am willing to bet that is the rule, for those that simply follow the CLT, rather than the exception.

It doesn't matter whether you or "those that simply follow the CLT" never return to make the correction. At some point, most common name updates which are done now based on CLT results which are skewed by IMDb data will become errant. They will have to be redone by someone or left as errors. The fact remains that the CLT data will flip at some point to as true as-credited data is populated. At that point, common names contributed now by those who follow the common name threads will still be correct. Common names done previously by "those that simply follow the CLT" will most likely be wrong as the CLT results will have changed. Contributing now either way is not in violation of the rules. I'm just trying to answer your question as to why it's beneficial to contribute from common name threads when others aren't doing so.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I was just trying to understand how two groups, using a different standard, could achieve the same goal.

Goal: Most credited name as Name; Correct "Credited As" name

Two types of contributors:
Type A = Use CLT results
Type B = Drill-down CLT (eg. common name threads)

Method 1:

Type A contributes Common Name based on existing CLT.
[As more "as-credited" data is contributed, some CLT results change.]
Type A or B recontributes Common Name based on changed CLT.
Goal achieved.

Method 2:

Type B contributes Common Name based on drill-down CLT.
Goal achieved.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,932
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So what do we do.

Either:

we trust the CLT blindly in all cases even when we know that there are errors (both in credits and titles)

Or

we accept the work of people that choose to go the extra distance.

I personally will accept the work of the people that go the extra distance.  Even if it is a very small part of the DB that is getting correct information, at least it is correct.

I say this with one caveat, it must have detailed notes in the contribution (1 for verification, 2 for future reference)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I was just trying to understand how two groups, using a different standard, could achieve the same goal.

Goal: Most credited name as Name; Correct "Credited As" name

Two types of contributors:
Type A = Use CLT results
Type B = Drill-down CLT (eg. common name threads)

Method 1:

Type A contributes Common Name based on existing CLT.
[As more "as-credited" data is contributed, some CLT results change.]
Type A or B recontributes Common Name based on changed CLT.
Goal achieved.

Method 2:

Type B contributes Common Name based on drill-down CLT.
Goal achieved.

Well put! 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I was just trying to understand how two groups, using a different standard, could achieve the same goal.

Goal: Most credited name as Name; Correct "Credited As" name

Two types of contributors:
Type A = Use CLT results
Type B = Drill-down CLT (eg. common name threads)

Method 1:

Type A contributes Common Name based on existing CLT.
[As more "as-credited" data is contributed, some CLT results change.]
Type A or B recontributes Common Name based on changed CLT.
Goal achieved.

Method 2:

Type B contributes Common Name based on drill-down CLT.
Goal achieved.

Thanks James, I really do hope you are correct.  As I said, back on page 7, I guess we will have to wait and see.

Oh, and sorry if my last post came off a little harsh.  I really should have known better. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
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Quoting reybr:
Quote:
Nobody is expecting anybody to scrub through all that data. You can take it as the CLT presents it to you. This is kinda like a partial contribution, but when somebody actually does the work, why reject it IF it is well documented.

I won't reject any work "IF it is well documented".  But T!M doesn't play the game that way.  His idea of documentation is to say he did a lot of research but that he doesn't have to document it (because Ken said it was okay to do it that way).

... SNIP ...

Quote:
(That is also why i would love for T!M to give a little bit more in his notes when establishing a common name. With good documentation it would also be easier for others to propagate the common name to other profiles. But this is another discussion)

Documentation, or lack thereof, shouldn't be another discussion.  I maintain it is relevant here because without any documentation (and merely saying "because I say so" isn't documentation) how can anyone accept the results/changes?  I don't recall seeing any of Kluge's contributions so I'm not accusing him of being lax in documentation, but T!M adamantly REFUSES to provide any documentation -- and seems to think that just because he says he did the research is enough for him to believed.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDigitalGhost
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 71
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@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?
It does not look more common than "Hiroshi Ikeuchi".

I have added some more research to your list:

"Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi" is credited in 17 titles (31 profiles):
Aliens VS Predator 2 (Confirmed by myself)
Monkey Bone

"Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" is credited in 6 titles (18 profiles):
Earth Vs. the Spider (ninehours)
Seed of Chucky (Faggot and Addicted2DVD)
Nutty Professor II: The Klumps
Spider-Man 2 Not a valid puppeteer credit.
Spinnen des Todes: Creature Feature Spinnen des Todes = Earth Vs. the Spider.

"Hiroshi Ikeuchi" is credited in 8 titles (25 profiles):
Zathura (Confirmed by myself)
Santa Clause 3
The Green Mile Not a valid puppeteer credit.
 Last edited: by DigitalGhost
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?
It does not look more common than "Hiroshi Ikeuchi".

Maybe he doesn't share your take on the 'Spider-Man 2' credit... If you consider that one valid, Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi still is the most-credited form, and thus the common name. Else it's a tie.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
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Green Mile = Hiroshi Ikeuchi as Puppeteer (Crew)
 Last edited: by ninehours
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Up the Irons!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?



Because he can - and Invelos evidently supports this type of behaviour..   

Let's all go to bed now... 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
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Earth vs The Spider = Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi as Puppeteer (Cast)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?
It does not look more common than "Hiroshi Ikeuchi".

I have added some more research to your list:

"Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi" is credited in 17 titles (31 profiles):
Aliens VS Predator 2 (Confirmed by myself)
Monkey Bone

"Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" is credited in 6 titles (18 profiles):
Earth Vs. the Spider
Seed of Chucky (Faggot and Addicted2DVD)
Nutty Professor II: The Klumps
Spider-Man 2 Not a valid puppeteer credit.
Spinnen des Todes: Creature Feature Spinnen des Todes = Earth Vs. the Spider.

"Hiroshi Ikeuchi" is credited in 8 titles (25 profiles):
Zathura (Confirmed by myself)
Santa Clause 3
The Green Mile

With all due respect Ghost, your data is useless, which UPC/EANs are you referring to, you assume that alll are the same, BAD ASSUMPTION.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?
It does not look more common than "Hiroshi Ikeuchi".

I wouldn't know, but per your own findings, Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi still is the most-credited form, and thus the common name.


I don't know... if I am reading his post right at this point there is a possible tie.

"Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi"
Aliens VS Predator 2 (Confirmed by myself)
Monkey Bone

"Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi"
Earth Vs. the Spider (Now confirmed by ninehours)
Seed of Chucky (Faggot and Addicted2DVD)
Nutty Professor II: The Klumps

(Spider-Man 2 & Spinnen des Todes: Creature Feature apparently does not belong in the list)

"Hiroshi Ikeuchi"
Zathura (Confirmed by myself)
Santa Clause 3
The Green Mile (Now Confirmed by ninehours)

So the last 2 names in the list has a possible of 3 titles. So if his research and all is correct it is definitely too soon to call a winner for common name... as it could go a different way... or it could be a tie in which case I have no idea how to handle since either contribution would be correct.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Berak:
Quote:
Quoting DigitalGhost:
Quote:
@Kluge.

Why have you started to mass contribute "Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi" as a common name?



Because he can - and Invelos evidently supports this type of behaviour..   

Let's all go to bed now... 

Yep< berrakl, all too sadly and i wish Ken wouuld end this corruption of the database and demand that PROPER documentation be included, nor just it is because I say it is.                   I will never trusrt ANY user that makes such a statement ior decideds that he can make global changes to what he doesnot own, and I don't care who it is.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Which UPCs Pete.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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