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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Anthony [Stewart] Head: common name? |
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| Author |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
There's actually one ruling that implies that we have to count per season, namely Gerri Cole's statement to use the title of the series and DVD (season) descriptor of the CoO in the original title field:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=481636&PageNum=3&messageID=1367403#M1367403. There we are. Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
So we have to follow rules, and here, taking Anthony Head as common name would be a violation of rules Again with the lies...  Anthony Head is the common name per the rules, and anything else should be voted down swiftly. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
There we are. You missed "But I have to agree that there's no specific ruling about this matter, only implied." Quote:
Once again: that's a lie. Anthony Head is the common name per the rules. Just saying that over and over doesn't make it so. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
You missed "But I have to agree that there's no specific ruling about this matter, only implied." I didn't miss anything. Quote:
Just saying that over and over doesn't make it so. Except that it is "so". And I'm not just saying that - I never do - but I can back that up. It occurs to me that with "it" you may have been referring to either my claim that surfeur51 is lying, my claim that Anthony Head is the common name, or both - so I'll address both. First the fact that he's lying. Look: if anything, surfeur51 has succeeded in questioning how we count TV credits - even though both the community (through a poll) and Gerri (see above) have tried to settle the matter before, and we've worked with that outcome for a really long time. Still, surfeur51 has managed to question this. Merely questioning it, however, does not automatically make using "Anthony Head" as the common name a violation of the rules - if this is now "in question" with no immediate answer, if anything, both would then have to be considered equally valid or invalid. As such, his claim that I've violated the rules by using "Anthony Head" as the common name is false, and therefore a lie. Then my claim that Anthony Head is the common name. That, too, is correct. Not only have we already established that using a common name-finding result, but even when surfeur51 wants to go by the numbers at face value, he'll lose out eventually, because if Gerri's ruling about original titles for TV show profiles would be consistently applied, then the CLT numbers would actually support Anthony Head. If necessary, I'll fix 'em all myself. Whatever happens, the result will be Anthony Head. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
There we are.
You missed "But I have to agree that there's no specific ruling about this matter, only implied."
Quote:
Once again: that's a lie. Anthony Head is the common name per the rules.
Just saying that over and over doesn't make it so. Don't we need to go by the implied because there's no rule whatsoever about how to count TV series? Why the ruling to enter the CoO series title and the descriptor of the DVD release in the CoO in the Original Title field? That's only in favour of the CLT results for a series season to be counted as one. Besides Merrik couldn't have said it better in the the topic I linked: Quoting Merrik: Quote:
To me, seasons are released as a single unit. They're aired, in a sense, as a whole unit made up of smaller parts during their original runs on television. So to me, I've always felt that one season = one credit (since what we're really talking about is how badly this fraks up the CLT counts). Of course that's just a personal opinion and of course others may have differing views.
[...]
The only compromise would be one season = one credit, which is basically how we do things anyway. | | | | Cor |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | By the way if Gerri's ruling would be applied consequently then the CLT result would probably change in favour of Anthony Head. | | | | Cor |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
By the way if Gerri's ruling would be applied consequently then the CLT result would probably change in favour of Anthony Head. It would indeed, which is exactly the kind of stuff Ken was talking about in the "if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered" quote that I already brought to the attention on page #1. Unfortunately surfeur51 doesn't tend to let the facts get in his way, so here we are at page four again...  |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne:
Don't we need to go by the implied because there's no rule whatsoever about how to count TV series?
Do we? I don't know. Why make a rule at all? I do know that Surfeur simply suggests following the rules as they are published.
I certainly understand why you,T!M or anyone else might not like the result, but that does not justify his "It is, because I say it is"-attitude towards someone that disagrees with him. I also don't see the benefit in repeatingly calling each other liars or stating that someone's opinion isn't real, it's just some sort of revenge act for "losing" some other discussion. That just makes it harder to filter out the actual arguments being presented (or lack thereof).
You either leave room for interpretation of the rules, or you don't. T!M doesn't normally, so why now? |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
You either leave room for interpretation of the rules, or you don't. T!M doesn't normally, so why now? This is decidedly not a case of "leaving room for interpretation of the rules". Not at all. The simple fact remains that both a poll and a ruling by Gerri have indicated that we count TV show credits per season. While that ruling by Gerri wasn't specifically about counting TV show credits, it does greatly affect the CLT numbers. As Corne and I have been saying: if her ruling on original titles for TV show profiles is consistently applied (which it hasn't been so far), then the CLT balance would shift towards Anthony Head. So even without any additional input, but just going by the rules and rulings as they stand right now, Anthony Head will turn out to be the common name - even by surfeur's standard, and regardless of any "interpretation". | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | @ T!M
One: an incorrect statement is not necessarily a lie. It is his opinion that you are violating the rules, it is your opinion that you aren’t.
You say that the community and Gerri have tried to settle the matter. I’m sorry but that sounds pretty weak to me. Gerri could settle it with 1 sentence. The community wasn’t really decided either way. Just proves that it isn’t really decided at all.
Two: I’m not disputing that Anthony Head is or will eventually become the common name. My issue is not the result, whatever that may be, it’s the method. If following the rules leads to Anthony Head then “Yay”, but if it doesn’t, we’re not going to make it so, just to accommodate you. And if you choose to “fix ‘em”, great, then it will eventually become a non-issue. |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
By the way if Gerri's ruling would be applied consequently then the CLT result would probably change in favour of Anthony Head. Then that's the way to go, isn't it? |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
It is his opinion that you are violating the rules, it is your opinion that you aren’t. That's not just my opinion, that's fact - as I've just extensively explained a few posts up. I'm sorry, but I don't take kindly to being accused of violating the rules when that's ab-so-lu-te-ly not true. Quote:
Gerri could settle it with 1 sentence. And she has. If we apply her ruling on original titles for TV shows, then you'll find there is no problem here. Quote:
it will eventually become a non-issue. It will indeed. |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
By the way if Gerri's ruling would be applied consequently then the CLT result would probably change in favour of Anthony Head.
It would indeed, which is exactly the kind of stuff Ken was talking about in the "if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered" quote that I already brought to the attention on page #1. Unfortunately surfeur51 doesn't tend to let the facts get in his way, so here we are at page four again... Is he? Seems to me like he's talking about correcting credits. What's wrong with the credits? Surely they are fine, but you just take objection to how they are counted? |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
Seems to me like he's talking about correcting credits. And this is about correcting titles - same thing. Additionally, I have to add that there is no problem with the "method" either. My method is exactly the same as your method, and as Invelos's method: as explained over and over again, Anthony Head is the common name not because I or anyone else says so - instead it's simply his common name per the current rules and rulings - nothing additional is needed, no creative interpreting, nothing. If we just correct everything according the current rules and rulings, Anthony Head will have the largest number of titles in the database. He doesn't yet, but that's what we have common name-finding threads for: so that we don't have to wait with using the correct common name once we know it. That, too, is explicitly allowed by Ken. |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M:
This is decidedly not a case of "leaving room for interpretation of the rules". Not at all. The simple fact remains that both a poll and a ruling by Gerri have indicated that we count TV show credits per season. While that ruling by Gerri wasn't specifically about counting TV show credits, it does greatly affect the CLT numbers. As Corne and I have been saying: if her ruling on original titles for TV show profiles is consistently applied (which it hasn't been so far), then the CLT balance would shift towards Anthony Head. So even without any additional input, but just going by the rules and rulings as they stand right now, Anthony Head will turn out to be the common name - even by surfeur's standard, and regardless of any "interpretation".
It decidedly is. Gerri's ruling wasn't about counting credits at all, as you say yourself. If you read some rule about counting tv-credits into it, you most certainly are doing your share of interpreting. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mallrat: Quote:
It decidedly is. Gerri's ruling wasn't about counting credits at all, as you say yourself. If you read some rule about counting tv-credits into it, you most certainly are doing your share of interpreting. I didn't say that I "read some rule about counting tv-credits" into it - I just deal in facts. Case in point: I merely referred to what Gerri's ruling effectively and unmistakeably does to the CLT numbers when it's applied accross the board. My opinion on what she meant is completely irrelevant - only the cold, hard effects it has on the CLT numbers matter. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Mallrat:
Quote:
Seems to me like he's talking about correcting credits.
And this is about correcting titles - same thing. Additionally, I have to add that there is no problem with the "method" either. My method is exactly the same as your method, and as Invelos's method: as explained over and over again, Anthony Head is the common name not because I or anyone else says so - instead it's simply his common name per the current rules and rulings - nothing additional is needed, no creative interpreting, nothing. If we just correct everything according the current rules and rulings, Anthony Head will have the largest number of titles in the database. He doesn't yet, but that's what we have common name-finding threads for: so that we don't have to wait with using the correct common name once we know it. That, too, is explicitly allowed by Ken. "And this is about correcting titles - same thing." And that's not interpreting? "instead it's simply his common name per the current rules and rulings" Opinion, not fact. As Surfeur demonstrated other opinions are possible. "but that's what we have common name-finding threads for" which say nothing about how to count TV-profiles |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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