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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Suggestion: Start a wiki (or fix the program)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Contribution is way more of a pain than it should. For instance, let's say you fix the common name on a profile, then go to submit it. When you do so, you find three birth-years in your data that aren't online. They are already in the database, so you have no option to submit without the birth years.

You can try to determine if the birth years are valid, but there are lot of them not listed in the front of the birth year thread. For instance, Michael Madsen, the actor, should have a birth year to distinguish him from a sound guy with the same name, but it would take a lot of poking around the forum to determine this.

It's generally simple to determine where the person in question was born that year, but just because a BY is accepted in the DB doesn't mean it's valid. Some have slipped through approval, like Samuel L. Jackson.

You can determine whether there are other people with the same name using IMDB, but beyond accuracy concerns, you don't know at a glance whether these other people ever did anything DVD Profiler would track. They make have only worked in positions or on movies that we won't list.

So basically, all kinds of submissions turn into a huge ordeal. A wiki would be far easier to organize than forum threads for purposes of tracking birth years and common names and greatly reduce the work required to check if you're submitting good data. It wouldn't be much, if any, extra trouble to enter data in the first place, either.

Alternatively, the program could track this data or handle submissions differently, but there's nothing we can do about that on this end.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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I should add there's no good way to determine which profile a given birth-year came from in order to check the reason given there. Deleting BY from your local DB may very well be deleting good data. Basically, there's no good solution to this as you are either submitting data without knowing it's good, throwing out data without knowing it's bad or spending a bunch of time duplicating other people's work.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Registered: August 23, 2008
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Very good idea! There are decisions that are made in the forums but never made to the rules that can go in it.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
A wiki would be far easier to organize than forum threads for purposes of tracking birth years and common names and greatly reduce the work required to check if you're submitting good data.

There already is a Wiki, the DVD Profiler Community Knowledge Base set up by Doug Wright.

Even an old and somewhat sparse Documented Birth Years-page exists.
I'm not a Credits-guy so I stayed away from this page, whoever wants to enter information there, give me a holler and I create an account for you.

cya, Mithi

PS And yes, a wiki here at Invelos might be an even better idea, but that was brought up in the past but no reply from Ken.
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Very good idea! There are decisions that are made in the forums but never made to the rules that can go in it.

hm, that on the other hand is a step to far for me, Rules should stay exactly where they are right now.
Documentation, yes, but nothing more.

cya, Mithi

PS My opinion, not any 'official' statement on behalf of the KB. If a majority of contributors (to DVD Profiler and the KB) really want to go down that road, they could.
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I just love threads such ad this while on the surface have some merit, are the same time utter nonsense.  Who is. Going to take on this project, with invelos' support, surely you don't expect ken to do it. He has his hands quite full enough. There wad a time I would have been willing to do it for free,  I took on a major job to a aid what I today view as an ungrateful community, ivhave the time and the skills to do it, but nope. Who would be willing to do this task and expose themsrlvrs tovthe wrath of what is decidedly s minority of users, but a very noisy and nasty bunch. Will invelos aspire it under a user, I doubt it, ivwouldn't if it were me. But it foes have some merit..
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantBlair
Resistance is Futile!
Registered: October 30, 2008
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While I love the idea of reintroducing a wiki, part of the big picture/problem for me is a conflict between doing it verses it being accepted.

I think that enough of the regulars here (it only takes a few, and it doesn't have to be all the same people... that's the whole point of a wiki) would have the drive to get it done and keep it up. That's the easy part. For every page created, if references are made linking back to the forum topic that inspired it, it would show that these aren't just one random personal opinion on how a situation should be handled.

The hard part: how would it be incorporated so that people would think to regularly refer to it? If it isn't at least made into a pinned topic (or better yet but far less likely as a menu option under Database -> Tools of the forum menu,) I believe it would be forgotten by all but those keeping it updated.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.

He who MUST get the last word in on a pointless, endless argument doesn't win. It makes him the bigger jerk.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
I just love threads such ad this while on the surface have some merit, are the same time utter nonsense.  Who is. Going to take on this project, with invelos' support, surely you don't expect ken to do it. He has his hands quite full enough. There wad a time I would have been willing to do it for free,  I took on a major job to a aid what I today view as an ungrateful community, ivhave the time and the skills to do it, but nope. Who would be willing to do this task and expose themsrlvrs tovthe wrath of what is decidedly s minority of users, but a very noisy and nasty bunch. Will invelos aspire it under a user, I doubt it, ivwouldn't if it were me. But it foes have some merit..


That's kind of the point. It's less trouble than what we're doing now. Setting up a wiki is not difficult and it's easier to maintain and use than forum threads.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Registered: August 23, 2008
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Quoting Mithi:
Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Very good idea! There are decisions that are made in the forums but never made to the rules that can go in it.

hm, that on the other hand is a step to far for me, Rules should stay exactly where they are right now.
Documentation, yes, but nothing more.


I would be more prone to agree with you if this thread didn't exist. If you have to have a thread of rules that aren't in the rules perhaps a wiki page that is updated isn't a bad idea.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDevion27
Registered: April 3, 2008
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i would love to see the wiki, i would be willing to help get it all started if someone would be nice to teach me a thing or too.
http://www.mulligansmovies.com/
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Devion27:
Quote:
i would love to see the wiki, i would be willing to help get it all started if someone would be nice to teach me a thing or too.

I always have the Wikipedia:Cheatsheet open in a second tab while editing Knowledge Base entries,
Help:Wiki_markup and
Help:Table in the bookmarks.
Also shamelessly copying a structure you like from older entries is always a good idea.

The rest is just learning curve, and I would recommend not to get too obsessed about layout-questions, the content is the crucial thing.

cya, Mithi
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDevion27
Registered: April 3, 2008
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i have always thought that using the wiki to store the BY would be the best way to do it since the fourm page can be a bit difficult to some new users
http://www.mulligansmovies.com/
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
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I guess my question would be this;

If someone were to set up a wiki for birth years, what form would it need to take?  Wikis are typically user driven, so, would there be a need for a "moderator"

The same questions for common names.

Could both of these update a forum thread within Invelos on a regular basis?

I think a rules wiki with addendums would also be nice.

Maybe a DVDProfiler manual included overall.


I would not be opposed to being able to reference a "officially" sponsored wiki, with maybe a permanent pointer within the online, or even a menu option (user configurable) within profiler.


Charlie
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
If someone were to set up a wiki for birth years, what form would it need to take?

Current situation e.g for Harrison Ford

Question would be if this manually index-page should maybe get scraped in favor of using a category which would look something like
this
(I just added the Category to the five existing entries)
The advantage would be that you don't have to groom an additional list, let the wiki do this.
Quote:
Could both of these update a forum thread within Invelos on a regular basis?

I'm not sure I follow, why would they need to update a forum thread?

cya, Mithi
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 Last edited: by Mithi
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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And for common names, it would look basically like the threads do: a list of all their credits with the verified ones sorted.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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This isn't something I would put too much work into right yet.  Ken has stated that he is working on a new cast and crew system for the next update... one that should make it so birth years and common names unneeded.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Desktop version 3.7.2 will soon begin beta testing, with some desktop fixes and iOS sync improvements. iOS version 1.1.0 will also be submitted to Apple this week for release alongside 3.7.2.  We have a small number of users who have run into some specific conditions that are not allowing them to use the application at all.  Identifying and correcting these issues has been my top priority. 

Now that this is complete, I can return my focus to version 3.8, which is already in progress.

Version 3.8 will begin the process of improving our cast and crew entry and linking system.  At present, we have removed the First/Middle/Last name system and replaced it with Given Name and Surname.  On a member-by-member basis, the default display order for these can be reversed (commonly used for Asian names).  In anticipation of this, DVD Profiler for iOS already uses this name system - Given Name and Surname.

We anticipate this will reduce the parsing issues.  Although a single field for names would go farther, functionality would be lost, such as the ability to display names as "Surname, Given Name", and to sort lists by Surname. 

Although I think this is a step in the right direction, I realize we have a ways to go.  I've drawn up several potential directions we can head from here, based in part on suggestions made by the community, but a clear single path is not yet apparent. 

It's time to open the discussion and hammer this out.  So, use this thread as a repository for credit linking system ideas.  If you have a partial idea, please feel free to share it as such.  If you've previously posted an idea, feel free to link to the prior discussion, but please also include a complete synopsis here.

If you post an idea, be prepared for positive and negative feedback.  We won't be vetoing anything, but everyone will be encouraged (ourselves included) to shoot holes as needed, in a polite and civil manner.

We will not be throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Any replacement system must support the base functionality of the current system, and must maintain the linking work that has already been put into our database.  Ideally any replacement system will also improve upon the current system:

- Eliminate the birth year in the online database
- Eliminate the CLT as a name determination tool
- Allow entry of properly accented and formatted names
- Require no changes to existing profiles when an actor changes names (e.g actress gets married)

Please keep this conversation on topic and civil so we can leave it in the general contribution discussion forum and get the widest feedback possible.  Moderation in this thread will be strict.


See the parts I put in bold. With all this in the works... I personally would wait to see what brings us.
Pete
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