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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Box Set: Video Format
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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The rules do not specifically address Video Format and there is some disagreement as to whether or not Video Format should be included in Box Set data.

It has been my experience that when one attempts to contribute a Box Set, and you do NOT include Format Data, the program does not allow the contribution to go through.

I just tested that with UPC 096009996499. I removed the Video Format data, tried to contribute the profile and received the following: "Unable to Contribute this Profile. Please correct the following errors before contributing this DVD: No Video Formats specified."

I'm not sure how these contributions made it to the voting page but, based on the above, I have been
voting "no" on this data being removed.

Thoughts?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGreyHulk
Fixin' it for everyone..
Registered: November 24, 2008
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Yeah, you can't contribute a new Profile without including Video Format.

I feel if everything in the Box Set has the same ratio, then you should include it.
Or say everything in the Box Set is 'Anamorphic Widescreen' with no specific ratio, for example, if it differs.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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The UPC I posted above is NOT a new contribution. It is in the database with the Video Format included. I removed the Video Format, tried to contribute the changed data and was not able to.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
It has been my experience that when one attempts to contribute a Box Set, and you do NOT include Format Data, the program does not allow the contribution to go through.

I just tested that with UPC 096009996499. I removed the Video Format data, tried to contribute the profile and received the following: "Unable to Contribute this Profile. Please correct the following errors before contributing this DVD: No Video Formats specified."

This error message only occurs when that particular box set profile has no child profiles - because then DVD Profiler doesn't *know* that it's a box set profile that needs no video data. As soon as your box set profile is actually set up as a box set profile, meaning it has at least one or more child profiles, then the program *does* know it's a box set profile, and then it will automatically drop the requirement of entering video format data.

So yes, box set profiles can - and should - be submitted without video format data, but that'll only work when the profile is actually set up as a box set. You can try this again with the same example you looked at earlier: just add a child profile, and then try to submit the parent without video data again.

Quoting GreyHulk:
Quote:
Yeah, you can't contribute a new Profile without including Video Format.

So this simply isn't true. While you can't contribute a "normal" profile without a video format, DVD Profiler drops this requirement when it's a box set profile (determined by the presence of child profiles). And the simple fact that Invelos specifically built in this behaviour, tells us how to use it.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting GreyHulk:
Quote:
Yeah, you can't contribute a new Profile without including Video Format.

I feel if everything in the Box Set has the same ratio, then you should include it.
Or say everything in the Box Set is 'Anamorphic Widescreen' with no specific ratio, for example, if it differs.


That's what I think too.

So I voted Other since it depends on the child profiles.

It's Yes it they are all the same.
It's Partial if not, as described above.
 Last edited: by CubbyUps
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Why is this thread a Poll? - What is the question??
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
It's Yes it they are all the same.
It's Partial if not, as described above.

We don't do that for the audio section, do we? We don't include audio data, neither complete nor partial, even when the audio tracks of the various child profiles (partially) match. So why would we do that for video, then? What would be the logic in treating the audio and video sections differently? Surely, any line of reasoning that leads us to leaving out the audio data from box set parent profiles, is exactly the line of reasoning that would lead us to leaving out the video data of box set parent profiles as well.

I'll illustrate that further, as the principle behind leaving most data out of box set profiles is always the same, and applies to all fields that we leave empty equally. Here we go:

- Why don't we include cast or crew? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there isn't any cast/crew to track.

- Why don't we include audio or subtitles? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there's no audio or subtitles to track.

- Why don't we include features? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there are no features to track.

- Why don't we include Disc ID's? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, any discs, so there are no Disc ID's to track.

And so on. In the face of all that, how could anyone argue in favor of including video data? Again and again, the reasoning is that there's no data to track. When there are no Disc ID's, no audio tracks, no subtitles, no features, no cast/crew, then why would there be video data? How does that make any sense whatsoever? When we don't even track the disc itself, if there are no discs in the profile, then how can the profile have a video format? Surely that video information comes from the discs? If a profile doesn't even track the disc, it shouldn't track any information from it. It's really that simple.

Apart from the fact that making an exception for video data makes no sense when all similar fields are left out, there's the fact that Invelos specifically built in the behaviour that video data is no longer required as soon as a profile becomes a box set profile by adding child profiles. At that point, the previously required video data suddenly is no longer required. There's your answer...
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
It has been my experience that when one attempts to contribute a Box Set, and you do NOT include Format Data, the program does not allow the contribution to go through.

I just tested that with UPC 096009996499. I removed the Video Format data, tried to contribute the profile and received the following: "Unable to Contribute this Profile. Please correct the following errors before contributing this DVD: No Video Formats specified."

This error message only occurs when that particular box set profile has no child profiles - because then DVD Profiler doesn't *know* that it's a box set profile that needs no video data. As soon as your box set profile is actually set up as a box set profile, meaning it has at least one or more child profiles, then the program *does* know it's a box set profile, and then it will automatically drop the requirement of entering video format data.

So yes, box set profiles can - and should - be submitted without video format data, but that'll only work when the profile is actually set up as a box set. You can try this again with the same example you looked at earlier: just add a child profile, and then try to submit the parent without video data again.

Quoting GreyHulk:
Quote:
Yeah, you can't contribute a new Profile without including Video Format.

So this simply isn't true. While you can't contribute a "normal" profile without a video format, DVD Profiler drops this requirement when it's a box set profile (determined by the presence of child profiles). And the simple fact that Invelos specifically built in this behaviour, tells us how to use it.


Thank you T!M - I didn't know this. I just grabbed the first Box Set I saw in my database and used that.

Based on all the information you shared, I will be changing my vote to "yes" since I agree that Box Set data should NOT be included.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Why is this thread a Poll? - What is the question??


Oops I forgot to untick the box.

I was going to post this as a poll but I changed my mind thinking it wouldn't provide me with enough information.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Totally agree with T!M on this one.

One further argument: Including data that is not relevant will skew statistics.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
It's Yes it they are all the same.
It's Partial if not, as described above.

We don't do that for the audio section, do we? We don't include audio data, neither complete nor partial, even when the audio tracks of the various child profiles (partially) match. So why would we do that for video, then? What would be the logic in treating the audio and video sections differently? Surely, any line of reasoning that leads us to leaving out the audio data from box set parent profiles, is exactly the line of reasoning that would lead us to leaving out the video data of box set parent profiles as well.

I'll illustrate that further, as the principle behind leaving most data out of box set profiles is always the same, and applies to all fields that we leave empty equally. Here we go:

- Why don't we include cast or crew? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there isn't any cast/crew to track.

- Why don't we include audio or subtitles? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there's no audio or subtitles to track.

- Why don't we include features? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, so there are no features to track.

- Why don't we include Disc ID's? Because the box set profile doesn't actually profile any content, any discs, so there are no Disc ID's to track.

And so on. In the face of all that, how could anyone argue in favor of including video data? Again and again, the reasoning is that there's no data to track. When there are no Disc ID's, no audio tracks, no subtitles, no features, no cast/crew, then why would there be video data? How does that make any sense whatsoever? When we don't even track the disc itself, if there are no discs in the profile, then how can the profile have a video format? Surely that video information comes from the discs? If a profile doesn't even track the disc, it shouldn't track any information from it. It's really that simple.

Apart from the fact that making an exception for video data makes no sense when all similar fields are left out, there's the fact that Invelos specifically built in the behaviour that video data is no longer required as soon as a profile becomes a box set profile by adding child profiles. At that point, the previously required video data suddenly is no longer required. There's your answer...


All well and good, but I've seen contributions with studios (Non media companies) being contributed, voted positively for and approved and eventually released.

If as you say is true then non media studios shouldn't be allowed.

Also the same about Genres.
Why are Genres allowed for the box set profile? This has nothing to do with the box, but the movies contained within.

Why is the Country of Origin allowed?
That should be left blank as well.

Ideally the only data that should be in the Box Set main profile are the following.
Year (since this is required to contribute any profile)
Case Type
Release Date
Covers
Box Set Data
Overview per case
Media Company
Total Running Time (Since it's in the rules)
Rating (Since it's in the rules)

However, if we were to correctly profile just the box we probably should leave out everything that regards the children. That would include the running time and the rating too.

The only data that should be in the main box set profile should be regarding the box itself then.
 Last edited: by CubbyUps
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
I was outta bullets
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
It's Yes it they are all the same.
It's Partial if not, as described above.

We don't do ...


All well and good...

I agree with both of you.
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
If as you say is true then non media studios shouldn't be allowed.

Indeed. Which is why I never enter them for box set parent profiles, and consistently remove them when someone else has entered any (and yes, they're consistently voted positively for and approved). An empty box doesn't have a studio, only a media company.

Quote:
Why are Genres allowed for the box set profile? This has nothing to do with the box, but the movies contained within.

I'm willing to go either way on that.

Quote:
Why is the Country of Origin allowed? That should be left blank as well.

Agreed.

Quote:
Ideally the only data that should be in the Box Set main profile are the following.
Year (since this is required to contribute any profile)
Case Type
Release Date
Covers
Box Set Data
Overview per case
Media Company
Total Running Time (Since it's in the rules)
Rating (Since it's in the rules)

Indeed.

Quote:
However, if we were to correctly profile just the box we probably should leave out everything that regards the children. That would include the running time and the rating too.

Again, I could go along with that. Neither are particularly interesting to me, personally, although I can see how having a box set's total running time listed somewhere can be interesting. The good thing is that both fields are specifically addressed in the rules, so at least there's no ambiguity. But "audio information" and "video information" are such similar fields, that it makes no sense to include one and exclude the other. It should be both or neither. Any reasoning behind leaving out audio data applies to leaving out video data as well.

Quote:
The only data that should be in the main box set profile should be regarding the box itself then.

Indeed.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheHumbleOne
Registered: October 24, 2008
Posts: 8
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To be honest I couldn't give a whatsit about the logical inconsistencies. The info was doing no harm and was obviously found to be useful by some people. So it might as well have been left alone. Instead we will doubtless now have folk with nothing better to do assiduously tracking down offending profiles and wasting everybody's time bunging in yet more database adjustments. What we should have done is just let them get on with it on a local basis whilst allowing others to keep their extra info in peace.

Of course that would be totally inconsistent with the spirit of this site which delights in this sort of pointless wrangling.

I knew there was some reason I give it up on a regular basis.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quote:
The info was doing no harm

I beg to differ. For query and statistical purposes logical inconsistencies do harm.
So there can be two ways:
- Keep the database consistent and let those who wish to do so add/keep inconsistent data locally.
- Keep the database inconsistent and let those who care clean it up it locally.

Do I have to tell you which seems more rational to me?

Quote:
To be honest I couldn't give a whatsit

Great way to open an argument where you criticize the spirit of this site... 
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheHumbleOne
Registered: October 24, 2008
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Well yes - I think the spirit of the site is very often anal retentive. More than that I strongly suspect a good number of potential users don't contribute potentially valuable updates because they are put off by what sometimes appears to be endless nit-picking.

Anyway I am perfectly willing to concede that anybody vexed by the possibility of receiving less accurate information as to the proportion of screen ratios of their movies might be concerned by the possible duplication.

I just seriously question whether the number of users so vexed amounts to much more than a hill of beans in  this crazy world.

And if my attitude seems flippant to you then you are probably absolutely right.
 Last edited: by TheHumbleOne
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