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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Theatrical release studio?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
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Let me ask a difficult question: how do we actually determine what a film's "Theatrical Release Studio" is? I'm asking this, because I'm seeing some different approaches. The main problem is that many, many films, including well-known ones, have different theatrical release studios in different countries, resulting in a different theatrical release studio being shown in the opening credits. Sometimes they just tag on an extra logo at the start, but sometimes film credits are actually changed. That's one thing, but subsequently these films often have home video releases in various countries as well, and the print used for that home video version doesn't always match with the version as it was shown in that particular country.

For instance, a UK film can have a different theatrical release studio in the US, and in many such cases, the opening credits for the US theatrical release are then changed to incorporate that US theatrical release studio. That could still be simple: the UK locality profile for such a film could list the UK theatrical release studio, while a US locality profile for such a film could list the US theatrical release studio. But it gets more problematic when a UK print of the film is used for a US locality DVD-release, or when a US print of the film is used for a UK locality DVD-release - do we just use whatever's in the credits, no matter whether it's accurate to the profile's locality? I happen to be in The Netherlands, and if a Dutch DVD release of a UK film happens to use an American print, do I then happily enter the US theatrical release studio, or do I document that it's a UK film and that it originally had another, UK-based, theatrical release studio?

Generally speaking, I see different users applying three approaches:

- Always use the original theatrical release studio, the studio that released the film in it's country of origin. This can't always be found on the cover or in the film credits - it's possible that the credit has been changed, is replaced by a local distributor, or is cut off entirely.

- Always use the theatrical release studio that released the film in the profile's locality. Chances are that that company's name *can* be found somewhere on the cover or in the film credits, although there many occassions where a home video version of a film uses a print from another locality, so we can't just go by the credits alone.

- Just use whatever you find in the credits, or, lacking that, on the cover.

That third option is, of course, the easiest, as there's no extra research needed beyond the disc that you have in your hand, but the results will be inconsistent: you will sometimes be listing the original theatrical release studio from the film's country of origin, you will sometimes be listing the studio that provided the film's theatrical release in your particular locality (or even an entirely different locality - depending on what print was used), and sometimes, you won't be listing a theatrical release studio at all, as they're all cut off. That's fine as long as that is indeed what we want. But I see users going out of their way to document the first two scenarios as well. So what are we really looking for?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
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I've always used the theatrical release studio for the given locality.  I had thought there was some guidance on this in the guidelines, but it seems that isn't the case.

Just like the distributor can, and often is, different for releases in different localities, so is the theatrical release studio.  What doesn't change across localities though is the production studios.

Usually, you can find that information in the film's end credits, on the theatrical posters, or even via a source such as filmratings.com.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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I list the original theatrical release studio under studios and, if a logo ist present, the local distributor under media companies. But I know, this is a very slippery road...

We have two fields: Studios, Media companies for at least eight possibly involved jobs:
- Production Studios
- Theatrical Release Studio
- Media distribution companies in the CoO
- International distribution companies
- Locality based theatrical release company/distributor
- Localty based media distribution companies
- Localty based media creation companies
- Localty based media production companies
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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The third option is not only the simplest, it is also consistent with the rules, namely, "The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself".

I have seen in the credits in many 4K/Blu-ray combo sets, where the 4K film is the US theatrical release version and the Blu-ray film is the International release version, resulting in different studio information in the Parent/Child profiles.

People are confusing the film we see in a picture theatre and its theatrical release studio to the film that we actually see on a disc.

We are suppose to profile the film on the disc, not profile the profile.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting ObiKen:
Quote:
People are confusing the film we see in a picture theatre and its theatrical release studio to the film that we actually see on a disc.

I, personally, am not confused about that - the problems just stem from the fact that the rules ask us to enter the theatrical release studio, as if that's always a "fixed" value, which it isn't.

The companies involved in bringing the actual disc to us are tracked in the "Media Companies" field, but there's no denying that the "theatrical release studio" actually refers to the film's theatrical release, whether we like it or not. The use of the word "theatrical", to some of us, causes this to go beyond "just take it from the disc".
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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No, I am referring to the print version I am watching on the disc, and it will show me the theatrical release studio for that print version in the film's credits.
 Last edited: by ObiKen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting ObiKen:
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No, I am referring to the print version I am watching on the disc, and it will show me the theatrical release studio for that print version in the film's credits.

That's option #3, indeed, use whatever's in the credits of the print that's on the disc. As I've said earlier, that's certainly the easiest, as there's no extra research needed beyond the disc that you have in your hand, but the fact is that you won't always be listing the same thing. You will sometimes be listing the original theatrical release studio from the film's country of origin, you will sometimes be listing the studio that provided the film's theatrical release in your particular locality (or even an entirely different locality, depending on the print used), and sometimes, when they're all cut off, you won't be listing a theatrical release studio at all.

Again, that's a perfectly valid option. I'm not even entirely sure yet what I prefer, and therefore I haven't voted yet, but it'd be nice (however unlikely) if we could all somehow get on the same page on how to handle this. The preliminary poll results show that those who have voted thusfar are extremely divided on the matter...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
That's option #3, indeed, use whatever's in the credits of the print that's on the disc. As I've said earlier, that's certainly the easiest, as there's no extra research needed beyond the disc that you have in your hand, but the fact is that you won't always be listing the same thing.

So? If two different releases of a film have different cast/crew credits we list the credits as they are in the respective release. That's what the rules say. Why should studios be any different?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting GSyren:
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Why should studios be any different?

I don't know. It's just that I see users going out of their way to document the other two options as well - that's why I'm asking the question.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Well maybe those who have voted for option 1 and 2 could explain their decision?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Quoting GSyren:
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Well maybe those who have voted for option 1 and 2 could explain their decision?

Often on screen credits are not clear:
- Locality based companies often add logos before the opening credits, but don't alter the credits themselves...
- Also theatrical release studios (CoO) sometimes only exist as logos without listing in the opening credits
- while other examples show companies which don't provide logos but are listed within the credits...
- Local media companies are often presented on the back cover only or as opening logo before the disc menu is displayed - outside the movie

This is why I can't vote for Option 3, because there is no way to determine which company is listed in the credits for which "role", especially if the logos are counted to be credits (which I tend to, because the rules tell to use the logo to determine the spelling)...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
This is why I can't vote for Option 3, because there is no way to determine which company is listed in the credits for which "role", especially if the logos are counted to be credits (which I tend to, because the rules tell to use the logo to determine the spelling)...

I don't see anything in Option 3 (or in the rules) that hinders you from researching which company functions in which role, as long as you take them from the credits (including logos).
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
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The theatrical release studio isn't always listed (nor always remains) in the film's credits especially when a specific film changes media distributors.  For example, Angel Eyes is a Morgan Creek production and was released theatrically in the US by Warner Bros. Pictures.  For a long time, WB released Morgan Creek films on home entertainment media.  Over the past couple of years, Morgan Creek ended this relationship and now Sony Pictures distributes Morgan Creek films on home media.  With the recent Blu-ray release of Angel Eyes, Sony has removed all references to WB from the credits.

A similar thing can be said for the Star Wars trilogy with Disney removing the Fox logos.  Obviously, 20th Century Fox released Star Wars: A New Hope theatrically and not Disney.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
The theatrical release studio isn't always listed (nor always remains) in the film's credits especially when a specific film changes media distributors.  For example, Angel Eyes is a Morgan Creek production and was released theatrically in the US by Warner Bros. Pictures.  For a long time, WB released Morgan Creek films on home entertainment media.  Over the past couple of years, Morgan Creek ended this relationship and now Sony Pictures distributes Morgan Creek films on home media.  With the recent Blu-ray release of Angel Eyes, Sony has removed all references to WB from the credits.

A similar thing can be said for the Star Wars trilogy with Disney removing the Fox logos.  Obviously, 20th Century Fox released Star Wars: A New Hope theatrically and not Disney.

These are exactly the kind of examples I was talking about, and that's where I see users documenting an *actual* theatrical release studio even though it isn't seen on screen or on the cover. So these are the kind of examples where I see people contributing corrections stating: "the credits don't show it, but the actual theatrical release studio was <company name>", followed by a number of sources backing that up. These contributions are generally met with "yes"-votes - after all, what they're saying is true. The ambiguity isn't whether we can document what the actual theatrical release studio really was, we usually can, but merely whether we want it in the profile or not.

So if "the actual theatrical release studio really was a different one than we see in the credits" is deemed a valid and welcome contribution on these examples, then that approach should be just as valid on thousands of other home media releases as well. The question really boils down to: do we let the disc's current or local distributor decide what we enter as "theatrical release studio", or do we want to enter wat the *actual* "theatrical release studio" really was and be able to document that with external sources? Again, looking no further than the disc that you have in your hand is always the easiest, but new releases of 'Angel Eyes' will then no longer include original theatrical release studio Warner Bros. Pictures, or new releases of 'Star Wars: A New Hope' will no longer include original theatrical release studio Twentieth Century Fox.

If that's what we want, fine, but again, if "the actual theatrical release studio really was a different one than we see in the credits" is deemed a valid and welcome contribution on these two examples, then then that approach should be just as valid on other titles as well.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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My understanding is that Disney dropped the "Fox" name from two film production companies it acquired after the acquisition of 21st Century Fox in 2019, namely:

  20th Century Fox film studio ==> 20th Century Studios
  Fox Searchlight Pictures      ==>  Searchlight Pictures

These names will appear as production company names on future film releases, but it has no bearing whatsoever on the theatrical film studio name of past releases from 20th Century Fox Film Corporation.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
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I voted option 2 ("Always use the theatrical release studio that released the film in the profile's locality.") which makes the most sense to me. But it's not the most idiot proof and may require research. The problem with option 3 is it's not always correct (as mentioned in some examples above).
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