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| Registered: March 17, 2007 |  Posts: 125 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
We could conceivably do it by making the title field (the field which is key field) the legal title ( I am not sure I like that term BTW), we could then broaden the definition of Original title, or we could perhaps add an additional field specifically for the On Screen title. I am open to almost anything. An On Screen Title field would be fun data to have, if just for trivia purposes. On screen the other night I saw the title: Blake Edward's The Return of the Pink Panther The Return of the Pink Panther. That field would certainly be the only appropriate home for "Mister Roberts". I'm starting to suspect that Skip is just messing with us in the forum. The more we debate him, the more he laughs at us for taking his arguments so seriously.  |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,267 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What appears on the screen, Unicus? Hmm? Are there quotes around the title or not? If there are, and you say they shouldn't be included under the "as credited" rule, then you are denying the reality of what your eyes see.
Sorry, there is no "as credited" verbiage in the Rule for titles.
I just love the way you guys make this stuff up!  I'd love to agree with you and I certainly agree the wording is different, but it's at the very top of the title section. Quote:
Title
Use the title from the film's credits. I agree quotes are irrelevant in 99.9% of cases and I still think it's daft idea when the title varies drastically from the dvd cover title, going back to the whole useability issue. I still firmly believe the idea was to stop minor variances, along the lines of AvP or Aliens vs Predator, without wider ramifications being known at the time, e.g. using quote marks or widely varying titles (hey if I say it enough it might stick!) | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Move along people, it's obvious to all (bar one) that the quotes emphasise the title and are not part of it. No rule change needed and just let the voters and screeners decide. I can't beleive this is even being debated.  | | | | Stuart |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gadgeteer: Quote:
Move along people, it's obvious to all (bar one) that the quotes emphasise the title and are not part of it. What? Is this what this thread is all about?  This forum is getting crazier every time. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What appears on the screen, Unicus? Hmm? Are there quotes around the title or not? If there are, and you say they shouldn't be included under the "as credited" rule, then you are denying the reality of what your eyes see.
Sorry, there is no "as credited" verbiage in the Rule for titles.
I just love the way you guys make this stuff up!
I'd love to agree with you and I certainly agree the wording is different, but it's at the very top of the title section.
Quote:
Title
Use the title from the film's credits.
I agree quotes are irrelevant in 99.9% of cases and I still think it's daft idea when the title varies drastically from the dvd cover title, going back to the whole useability issue.
I still firmly believe the idea was to stop minor variances, along the lines of AvP or Aliens vs Predator, without wider ramifications being known at the time, e.g. using quote marks or widely varying titles (hey if I say it enough it might stick!) Excuse me for my blindness, but where in your quote of the Title Rule does it say "as credited" or "exactly" as it does in the Overview and cast sections? | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,267 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Excuse me for my blindness, but where in your quote of the Title Rule does it say "as credited" or "exactly" as it does in the Overview and cast sections? If you aren't taking it exactly as it is in the credits then why say use the credits at all? As I said I believe the intention when this was written was to avoid arguments around minor differences between film an cover. Besides it's clear the clarification on cast credits was to void the discussions suggesting big name stars should be listed first. As for overview I've never really understood why we can't correct the obvious spelling mistakes. Apart from some people's fear that allowing a small piece of latitude will destroy all data. Just because I haven't been as vocal as some doesn't mean I haven't followed the discussions that have gone on here and at intervocative. Besides I'm not arguing we should use the quotes, the common sense workaround 99% of people have applied is a breath of fresh air. And I see very little difference being made by this discussion as to people's stances. Remember I have a much bigger issue than you do with the use the credits as it's currently stated. After all you were the one who said you would use the film title credits over the dvd cover credits for A Bell from Hell dvd. Thankfully those that own it apply a common sense solution and have stuck with the dvd cover title. | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Excuse me for my blindness, but where in your quote of the Title Rule does it say "as credited" or "exactly" as it does in the Overview and cast sections?
If you aren't taking it exactly as it is in the credits then why say use the credits at all?
As I said I believe the intention when this was written was to avoid arguments around minor differences between film an cover.
Besides it's clear the clarification on cast credits was to void the discussions suggesting big name stars should be listed first. As for overview I've never really understood why we can't correct the obvious spelling mistakes. Apart from some people's fear that allowing a small piece of latitude will destroy all data.
Just because I haven't been as vocal as some doesn't mean I haven't followed the discussions that have gone on here and at intervocative.
Besides I'm not arguing we should use the quotes, the common sense workaround 99% of people have applied is a breath of fresh air. And I see very little difference being made by this discussion as to people's stances.
Remember I have a much bigger issue than you do with the use the credits as it's currently stated. After all you were the one who said you would use the film title credits over the dvd cover credits for A Bell from Hell dvd.
Thankfully those that own it apply a common sense solution and have stuck with the dvd cover title. The issue is that when I look at the on Screen credits and see "Mister Roberts" I recognize that the quotes are not actually part of the title, they simply set the title off. I also recognize that any resource that you would use to reasearch this movie (the internet, dvd retailers, the Academy Awards site, etc), list the movie as Mister Roberts with no quotes. Because the rule does not say "as credited" or "exactly", that means that I do not have to include "stuff" which may appear oin the title screen which I know is not part of the title. If it did say "exactly" then I would have to do what we are required to do for cast which includes putting spelling errors into the database because it has to be "exactly" as credited. Surely you can see the distinction between the two?  | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,267 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Surely you can see the distinction between the two? I believe that's where my common sense comment came in A lot of the clarification has come about exactly because of discussion such as this where it should be common sense but it isn't always for some people. As for my issue with the differing titles, that's common sense and database useability, which has been mentioned many times in this thread. | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to agree with Hal. If we were meant to copy the title from the credits, with no regard as to what the actual title was, the rules would say "Use the title from the film's credits and ensure that it matches exactly." It doesn't say that so 'as credited' doesn't apply. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | What twisted logic. I am speechless. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
What twisted logic. I am speechless. That would be a first.  And it is only twisted because you don't agree with it...I could say the same thing about your logic.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,267 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I have said in every post I don't believe they should be used in the majority of cases,but unlike some I will accept that I don't know every scenario.
However quotation marks are not an issue either way, apart from being pointless in most cases. Profiler has full substring filters on add by title and filter by title (notable exception being the filter on center top of profiler). This means it will find a title regardless of quotation marks being there.
What I find disingenuous is arguing about how using quotation marks causes usability issues when it doesn't, whilst ignoring the fact that using the film title from the credits, where it radically differs, does actually cause this issue.
No substring filter can help you find a title if the name is totally different.
So the argument is that quotes should not be used in most cases as this was never really part of the title. Fine then use that argument. Do not use a non-existent usability argument. | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
So the argument is that quotes should not be used in most cases as this was never really part of the title. Fine then use that argument. Do not use a non-existent usability argument. It is only a non-existent argument because you know what a 'full substring filter' is. Unfortunately, not every user does. My mother uses this program to track her DVDs. I installed it for her and showed her how to add her DVDs. She is not as computer savvy as you seem to be and she wouldn't know a substring from a guitar string. There are a lot of people out there just like my mother so, before you go and dismiss an argument as 'non-existent', try and look at things from a POV other than your own. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | So you teach her.  Same as we try to do here. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,560 |
| | Posted: | | | | Why would I use a "full substring filter" to search for a title if I know the title?
With that logic, you would have to always use full substring, or you would never be sure that you would find what you were looking for. And if that was the case, why wouldn't full substring be the default? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,267 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Q
There are a lot of people out there just like my mother so, before you go and dismiss an argument as 'non-existent', try and look at things from a POV other than your own. Wow I know I'm one of the better people for looking at POV other than my own here. How often have you seen me dogmatically stating a point of view in a discussion, something I haven't tried to do in this one either? I'm still waiting on any of you people stating we should use the credit title but not exactly as credited to address my point about radically different titles. Which is another point of view that people seem to happily ignore. | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
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