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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Rules according complete TV-Show-Boxsets - A chance for a modification?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMagmadrag
Master of childprofiles
Registered: May 25, 2007
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Germany Posts: 256
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Well, well, well, for sure I could do this simply as "private profiles" (not contributed), but in my opinion there is kind of a contradiction in the rules, where I would like to know your opinion:

Couting two passages of the rules:
"If a title does not have a UPC, then add the title by Disc ID, using your DVD-ROM drive."

"Studios occasionally re-release titles with the same UPC/EAN, but with changed content – for example Cover Images, Case Type and Overview. Subsequent releases are entered with an alternate version UPC/EAN."

But additionally the rules say - according to TV-Show-Boxsets - that child-profiles are only allowed for every single Disc by Disc-ID.

So just to make that problem easier to understand:
You buy a whole series complete - formerly a box set - but you "only" get all the seasons (without any EAN/UPC) as the seller has lost, damaged or destroyed the box which was formerly arround.

So to do it the correct way: If there has not allready been created a profile for those seasons w/o EAN/UPC, you might need to create one. Especially as the version with EAN/UPC most times has a different covers. Mostly small differences but sometimes huge ones.

According to the rules it seems to be allowed to create the profile by Disc-ID (as you don't have any EAN/UPC and 3rd part databases, which could possibly confirm that the contents of both versions are the same are not allowed!).

If I get the seasons without the box, I seem to be allowed to use the "Alternative Version" of the Disc-ID to create a Season-Profile, but as soon as I own the box, I am not?

Now this way for everybody who owns the whole series WITH the boxes around, doing it the right way (always thinking about child profiles for seasons and additionaly for every disc) this causes countless "private profiles" (with covers, which will never become of the database of invelos) which will never get any update.

And everybody who collects TV Series knows how many of them were released as "complete" during the last decade, mostly including season-boxes without EAN/UPC.

So what's your opinion?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Per Ken Disc ID profiles are for disc level profiles only not for season within the complet series sets

Ken's last comment on this:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Ken,

I do have one question that hopefully you can advise us on.

We have instances where there is a conflict between using the disc ID of the first disc in a single season TV season for the "child profile" just for the first disc in that season, and that same disc ID is needed to profile the entire season when that season is a child of a "Complete Series" of a TV show.

Can you provide some guidance on this please?


My initial thought is that in either case, disc-level profiles should have content only from that disc.  How often does this occur?  Since we don't have grandchild profiles at the moment, how do you enter them currently.


So Disc IDs should never be used for Season level profiles. IF a Complete series set has no UPC for Seasons within the Complete Series at this time our only way... at least for the online database...is manual profiles as the rules are written and Ken's latest clarification.

As for my personal opinion... this really don't bother me as most complete series sets I own don't have season boxes anyway.  Most I own all disc is in one huge case. And in my personal opinion I think this don't need a rule change to do it right, it would need a program change.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMagmadrag
Master of childprofiles
Registered: May 25, 2007
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Sorry to say: But for nearly a decade we have kind of "grandchild" profiles. I remember this quite well as I was the one who asked for a program modification then and called it "box set in a box set" (what from the sence is exactly the same)

To describe how it worked: Then I bought the Universal Classic Monster Collection (don't own it anymore), a box with I think 4 keep cases inside (don't remember if they had EAN/UPC or not). So those keep cases where the childs. But inside each of them there were 3 - 4 discs with movies (Dracula, Frankenstein, The Mummy), and I asked for this "box set in a box set" to be able to create a child profile for every single disc.

I asked for a modification of the program and it was released quite fast.

But I also understand what you mean with those huge box sets for series, not split up in seasons. The German version of "Married with children" is one box with two digibooks inside. Similar to MacGyver and others. But so far - at least in Germany, don't know the releases of all other countries - those "all in one case" releases are the exception. I for myself remember just a few series in my collection where all the discs are in one case.

But following the rules straight by the word, doing the work for just private profiles - not allowed to share them according to the rules - multiplies work as everybody needs to create them himself to have a better overview. Best example: "Bonanza"! One box with 6 keep cases inside, totally 107 discs. And for a better overview in the collection the case-profles are needed! So just imagine 20, 30 or more of the users own this set and need to create the case-profiles themselves....

And for me it's still a contradiction: Case-profiles are allowed, if they have an EAN/UPC. But for several series we have in the database, there were used profiles WITH EAN/UPC, if the seasons DON'T have one. So they are all wrong! Especially - like mentioned in the inital post - as there is no proof that the ones WITH have exactly the same contents as the one WITHOUT.

For every single release the "alternative version" is allowed to handle the new covers etc., but not for series? Sorry, but this way simply my logial understanding bursts.

Not to forget: Size matters! A collector who maybe has just 3 or 4 complete boxes on his shelf, could handle the overview of child profiles much easier. But especially you, addicted to series, might understand how difficult it becomes if the number of series is growing (in my case actually more than 1100 series, luckily only a view with complete boxes)

And: You didn't answer the problem of buying the seasons used and the box is missing. Following the rules, then they MUST get a profile by Disc-ID.
 Last edited: by Magmadrag
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quote:
Following the rules, then they MUST get a profile by Disc-ID.


As even Ken himself said... following the rules Disc-ID is for disc level only not for season level so no you are wrong. IF you want to do that it must be local only. Not to be uploaded to the online database. That is what manual profiles are for.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting Magmadrag:
Quote:
And: You didn't answer the problem of buying the seasons used and the box is missing. Following the rules, then they MUST get a profile by Disc-ID.

No, following the rules you would create a profile for the box you don't have (using its UPC/EAN), and then place the discs as child profiles of that.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Ultimately, the rules are fairly simple to remember
- a disc ID profile can be a disc or a movie on the disc
- a UPC profile can be a case/box or a movie inside it
- season profiles, per rules, are to only use UPCs
--- this is because the disc ID should only be used as disc level profiles

It doesn't matter how you bought them secondhand.  It only matters how they were originally released. 

If you go to add the discs separately, there's probably a good chance that disc level profiles may already exist (because a lot of people like them) and you'll simply have to add the box from the box art that gets downloaded with the disc ID profile.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMagmadrag
Master of childprofiles
Registered: May 25, 2007
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What about promo releases? For TV Shows as well as for movies, they are gifts without EAN/UPC and they are used to have different contents.

Sorry to say, but this way it will always be a disadvantage for series. The rules cover up every little different for a movie, even the cover, by the alternative version. And if there are two, three or even more releases of a series/season with different covers but same UPC, only the first is relevant.

And I wonder how others handle the overview of 100 child profiles of one box without any box between.

As a load of franchises are growing and growing, there might come a time quite soon when greatgrandchildren-profiles are needed.

Level 1 - Box Set - The Franchise
Level 2 - Box in the Box - TV Series (1, 2, 3, different...)
Level 3 - Keepcase in the Box in the Box - Seasons
Level 4 - Discs in the Keepcase in the Box in the Box
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Magmadrag:
Quote:
And I wonder how others handle the overview of 100 child profiles of one box without any box between.

Manual Profiles for the seasons, as Addicted2DVD already mentioned.
My "Star Trek TNG 20th Anniversary Set" (silver/green box) looks like

in my Profiler. I even created manual "BoxSets" for several anime series that were released on a number on independent DVDs to have more order.
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As shown above, Thank you Mithi, use manuel.  or just have many child profiles without a profile for the season box. seems so simple to me.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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If you're going to make a poll, you should at least make all the options neutral, and not editorialize within your poll options ("my countless number of private profiles").
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
If you're going to make a poll, you should at least make all the options neutral, and not editorialize within your poll options ("my countless number of private profiles").


agreed... simple and unbiased choices always make for the best polls.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMagmadrag
Master of childprofiles
Registered: May 25, 2007
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@Mithi: Didn't I write about avoiding those "Manual Profiles" before? Manuality multiplies work. Just for imagination: 100 people own the same set and 100 people have to do the same work for creating manual profiles.

All I try to reach is to avoid that everybody needs to do the same work.
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