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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Box Set Contents for partial box set (3)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Poll is closed.  See 5/28 post at end of thread.
------------------------------------------------------

Another attempt at a poll to resolve this issue.
First poll is here.  No clear winner.
Second poll is here (Contribution Rules Forum).  Option [The Box Set Contents field of the partial box set's main database profile should only list the volume(s) that were originally sold with the box.] reaches 60% preference, but insufficient total number of votes in the poll to resolve the issue.

Rewriting the poll here.

The question at hand:

What should the Box Set Contents field of a partial box set profile contain, in the main database?

Definition: a partial box set is an artbox which, when purchased, may also be sold with some (usually one), but not all, of the volumes of the completed box set.  Additional volumes of the complete box set are sold (and profiled) separately.  These are often seen as "Vol. 1 + Box" or "Starter sets", or some other similar marketing term.  The box is considered a box set profile, per the results of this poll.

Instances of "Volume N + Box" are known to have been made for the first, second and last volumes of the series (where the last volume is between 3 and 8).


This is in reference to what should be acceptable as a contribution to the main database, not what is entered in your local database.  Which listing is chosen to be present in the main database has no relevance to what you have in your local database, since downloading the box profile removes all box set contents from the entry, and you will need to add those yourself regardless. In addition, Refreshing Updated Profiles will not change the Box Set Contents field no matter what has been changed in the main database.

Notes:

This poll is not about whether the child profiles should be entered.  Profiles for all additional volumes will be entered normally.  The only question is which child profiles have their links included in the main database version of the box profile's Box Set Contents.

This poll is not about which child profiles you include in your local Box Set Contents field.  You are free to include any, all, or none of the child profiles.  As stated above, they are independent of what's in the main database.

Extra Note:

A change to the program in version 3.03 modifies the behavior of moving Box Set profiles between categories.  Child profiles are now moved at the same time as the parent profile.  However downloaded Box Sets still do not automatically download the child profiles, so the affect of this will only be on profiles that the user has modified themselves.



The poll will be open until Sunday, May 27.  A 60% majority will decide the winner, if any.
 Last edited: by Kinematics
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Brief summary of arguments in favor of keeping only the initial volumes sold in the Box Set Contents list:

1) It matches what was originally sold, in keeping with other rules that maintain that "correct" data is what the first release contained (eg: covers, SRP, etc).
2) It shows exactly what you get with the purchase, and does not mislead you into thinking that the box purchase contains the entire volume set.
3) It (usually) matches what the case says.  For example, vol 1 + box of Ikkitousen says it includes the first disc.  The collected box set uses the same box with a sticker (and new UPC) that says it includes all 4 discs.
4) It does not cause conflicts in what should be considered the 'proper' volumes to include with the box set when multiple versions of additional volumes are released. For example, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is being released with 4 regular editions and 4 special editions.  The special editions are notably different, where 3 of them (all except the first volume) include an extra DVD of the show in original broadcast order.  If all volumes are to be included in the box, there is the potential for conflict in deciding which ones to add.
5) Box Set Contents are intrinsicly locked.  Downloads of new profiles and updates to the profile after the fact will not benefit users in terms of attaching additional volumes anyway.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
Missed again!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,277
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FWIW I think put all the volumes there.

Downloading the profile doesn't include the info so it deosn't upset anyone who doesn't have the whole set
For anyone who wants to add in all the volumes a the 'preview' feature will allow them to check which are the correct contents to download (and add locally as box set contents)
It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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I think Voltaire53 is right - the online database might as well contain all relevant volumes as when you download the parent profile, unless you already own the volumes, you don't see them in the information anyway.
I can see your logic with keeping it to only the initial volume, but unless the way boxset contents are downloaded is changed, there's no need to do that.
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,411
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Does anyone actually buy Vol. 1 + box and then not acquire the additional volumes?  Even if they do, it's easier to remove them from the profile than to add them, which is what I think most people are doing.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Quoting Voltaire53:
Quote:
For anyone who wants to add in all the volumes a the 'preview' feature will allow them to check which are the correct contents to download (and add locally as box set contents)


Note: If you don't already have the volumes in your local listing, all you get are the UPC/Disc ID codes.  I suppose you can copy those to be sure you get the correct next item.  Assuming those codes are completely correct.

As a current example, with the release of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I know many people who plan on getting the limited edition box of the first volume, but only the regular edition versions of the remaining volumes due to the cost.  Which sequence of volumes 2-4 is "correct" to include in the boxset contents field?

Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I can see your logic with keeping it to only the initial volume, but unless the way boxset contents are downloaded is changed, there's no need to do that.


There's no /need/ to restrict it to only the volume that comes with the purchase, but there's also no /need/ to include all volumes either.  While the program does not download all child volumes with a parent profile now, how would the different options here change if it did?  Keep in mind that if it did so and kept the box set contents links you'd then have the secondary issue of how the program now always moves all child profiles with the parent, which isn't want you'd want if you were purchasing one at a time (as would be the case if you were purchasing a partial box set).
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgarmonbozia
Registered: March 20, 2007
United States Posts: 38
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I can understand why people want to include all the appropriate titles, but adding titles to a UPC/profile that are not associated with that UPC (and SRP) is a really bad idea IMO.  It could be a really bad precedent.  A profile should represent what comes with that UPC and NOTHING else.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBlueloopstah
Registered: March 18, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 55
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The main problem with this is that for some reason people seem to think that Vol 1 + artbox is a partial box set.

It isn't.

The makers of the DVDs intend you to buy all the DVDs that make up the series separately and stick them on your shelves separately. Sometimes, because they know there are people out there who like sticking their DVDs in some sort of container, or enjoy pretty pictures, they will release a box like container with art on (hence art box) that people can, if they wish put their DVDs inside. Putting the DVDs in some sort of art box is a bonus extra (they are often limited in number) and in no way makes them a box set release, even a partial one.

When they want people to buy the DVDs as a boxset, they package up a boxset of all the DVDs and sell them as a box set.

I could understand where people are coming from if they only ever released the volume 1 with the box and had no separate release, obviously that would be a partial box set ready for filling. As they do sell the volume 1's separately then it is clear that the art box is simply an additional item provided for the minority of people who like that sort of thing.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Looks like yet another candidate for a field that should be private only. I always set mine myself anyway.
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Quote:
Putting the DVDs in some sort of art box is a bonus extra (they are often limited in number) and in no way makes them a box set release, even a partial one.


We have already had this discussion. See the thread pointed to under the Definition clause. For our purposes, they are box sets.

Quote:
Looks like yet another candidate for a field that should be private only.


Actually, to a large extent it is.  There is no direct correlation between the values set on any given user's system and what's in the main database.  That's probably where a lot of the problem is coming from.

Actually, let me pause the current discussion and ask anyone who's reading, how much does the Box Set Contents field for complete boxsets affect you?  Are the contents that are stored in the main database of any use to you whatsoever?  If they were removed from the main database, would it have any affect on how you add and set your local profiles?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:
Quote:
Putting the DVDs in some sort of art box is a bonus extra (they are often limited in number) and in no way makes them a box set release, even a partial one.


We have already had this discussion. See the thread pointed to under the Definition clause. For our purposes, they are box sets.

Quote:
Looks like yet another candidate for a field that should be private only.


Actually, to a large extent it is.  There is no direct correlation between the values set on any given user's system and what's in the main database.  That's probably where a lot of the problem is coming from.

Actually, let me pause the current discussion and ask anyone who's reading, how much does the Box Set Contents field for complete boxsets affect you?  Are the contents that are stored in the main database of any use to you whatsoever?  If they were removed from the main database, would it have any affect on how you add and set your local profiles?

I answered that question in my earlier post but to repeat, it doesn't effect me at all because I set the box set contents myself on all of my sets.
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Completed time limit for this poll.  Vote is 13-15.  53% majority is insufficient to declare resolved.

Anyway, yet another instance of the vote swinging around the 50% mark for this issue.  This has been tried in both this forum and the Rules forum, and has yet to reach a consensus.

Will send a PM to Ken to simply declare one way or the other how this should be handled.  If needed, we can work on the specific wording of the amendment once the rule has been declared.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttas314
Registered: March 24, 2007
Canada Posts: 240
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Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:

Will send a PM to Ken to simply declare one way or the other how this should be handled.  If needed, we can work on the specific wording of the amendment once the rule has been declared.

I think this is the best thing to do.

I suspect that there will be more changes to how box sets are handled, but Ken should have a good idea where he plans to go.  If the next update automatically download the child profiles (I hope it will) that will kill the full series option.
Tom.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Blueloopstah:
Quote:
The main problem with this is that for some reason people seem to think that Vol 1 + artbox is a partial box set.

It isn't.

The makers of the DVDs intend you to buy all the DVDs that make up the series separately and stick them on your shelves separately. Sometimes, because they know there are people out there who like sticking their DVDs in some sort of container, or enjoy pretty pictures, they will release a box like container with art on (hence art box) that people can, if they wish put their DVDs inside. Putting the DVDs in some sort of art box is a bonus extra (they are often limited in number) and in no way makes them a box set release, even a partial one.

When they want people to buy the DVDs as a boxset, they package up a boxset of all the DVDs and sell them as a box set.

I could understand where people are coming from if they only ever released the volume 1 with the box and had no separate release, obviously that would be a partial box set ready for filling. As they do sell the volume 1's separately then it is clear that the art box is simply an additional item provided for the minority of people who like that sort of thing.


The manufacturers change how this stuff is sold and packaged all the time.  They issue limited runs of titles in different types of container, some with UPC, some without, and back again.  A boxset is still a boxset by definition, even if they quit selling it that way at some point.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
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