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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Jr./Sr. suffixes |
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| Author |
Message |
  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Some time ago, I submitted an update to the U.S. profile of 'The Super' (024543-108375), in which I explained that while the credits actually show a cast entry for "Lee Simon Jr." (no comma preceding the suffix), due to the forum consensus to ALWAYS enter such suffixes preceded by a comma, this should be entered as "Lee Simon, Jr., credited as Lee Simon Jr." This update was met with a large number of (unanimous) 'yes'-votes - even including Skip, if I remember correctly. This week, however, Skip submitted an update to change this back: he's trying to replace the "Lee Simon, Jr. [Lee Simon Jr.]" entry with a "Lee Simon Jr." one. At first, he didn't mention this change in his contribution notes at all - probably hoping that no one would notice it among a few other changes. My no-vote resulted in edited notes, with another one of those lovely rants we grew to love (all SHOUTING by Skip, of course, no changes by me): Quote:
Re: Lee Simon Jr. He has a very EXTENSIVE resume, ONE MOVIE...this ONE MOVIE and he is credited as lee Simon Jr., therefore there is no need for ANY sort of COMMON name. Tim Consensus has no hold when there is NOTHING upon which to base a the Common Name, which is designed to accomodate multiple names for one person. Not a SINGLE solitary credit for YOUR preference. There is NOTHING to suppport your vote. So once again, it seems that Skip has decided on his own that the long-standing forum consensus to always precede Jr./Sr. suffixes by a comma "doesn't count", simply because he wasn't able to dig up a "Lee Simon, Jr." credit... Suddenly, me applying this standard is my "preference". As usual, he also seems to be harrassing any other 'no'-voters through PM to get them to withdraw their vote, leaving me as the only 'no'-voter. I hope the screeners will see past all this and decline the contribution, but still I think it's appalling how often he gets away with singlehandedly inventing and applying new rules and exceptions, and breaking existing ones. How come so few people dare to vote against his contributions? I don't think I've seen a single one of his in the past year that didn't try to sneak in some form of personal preference along with a few correct changes to throw off the scent...  |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | There was a poll on this, about whether or not one should standardize a name that has no variants, as in this case. http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=213446&PageNum=1The majority voted for the option "Don't standardize a name that has no variants". Quoting m.cellophane's post on page 4: Quote:
In the course of the discussion, it became apparent that we needed to define that we should not use any form of standardization on names that had no variants. Rather than unilaterally inserting that clause into the guidelines we're using for the 'Credited As' database, I thought it would be good to start a poll so that this clarification would have the support of the forum.
As the poll results show, it does have the support of the forum. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,311 |
| | Posted: | | | | simply as the poll above show... if there is no variant for the actor there is no need for a common name... The rules even say we are toi use the credit look-up tool to see when to use credited as.... so there should be no standardizing at all. only to be sued when it is a same actor credited more then 1 way should common name be used. | | | | Pete |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
There was a poll on this, about whether or not one should standardize a name that has no variants, as in this case. http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=213446&PageNum=1
The majority voted for the option "Don't standardize a name that has no variants". While I can agree with that in most cases, I really can't see applying it to something basic as this. I feel we need some form of consistency. We have decided years ago on a way to enter these suffixes. Why should we depart from that for a few specific cases? I'll ask you this: when this Mr. Simon Jr. has ten credits to his name, of which only four use a comma, but six credits don't - what do we do then? I very much fear that this line of reasoning will leave the door open for people like Skip to come along and say: "no standardizing, majority wins, so no comma it is". Do we really want to go down that road? Similarly: I've always hated the decision to split initials over the first two name fields, so that, for instance, J.J. Cohen is entered as J. J. Cohen. Currently, the "credited as" field is used to indicate the difference between: - an on-screen credit of "J. J. Cohen" (with space between initials): entered as credited. - an on-screen credit of "J.J. Cohen" (without space between initials): entered as "J. J. Cohen [J.J. Cohen]" Again, this line of reasoning would allow actors with only one credit to their name to be entered in a different way than actors with several credits to their name, let alone the fact that for many, many actors, the variant without a space between in the initials is the mostly credited form. Can I move the second initial back into the first name field for all those actors of which that is the most credited form? Please answer me this? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Why should we depart from that for a few specific cases? I know this is a rhetorical question, but I will answer it just the same: Because it's a sliding slope, but I'm ready to take a ride. And could we please, while we're on it, start to make corrections on spelling errors in Overviews and Cast Roles?  Yves? I'm your friend.  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,311 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Behemot:
Quote:
There was a poll on this, about whether or not one should standardize a name that has no variants, as in this case. http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=213446&PageNum=1
The majority voted for the option "Don't standardize a name that has no variants".
While I can agree with that in most cases, I really can't see applying it to something basic as this. I feel we need some form of consistency. We have decided years ago on a way to enter these suffixes. Why should we depart from that for a few specific cases? Because that is what the Rules tells us to do... it tells us to use the look-up tool to determine when to use the "Credited As" function... if there is someone that has not been credited more then one way then we don't use it. A decision made years ago goes down the toilet when Ken puts a rule up that goes against what a forum agreement was from years ago. Quote:
I'll ask you this: when this Mr. Simon Jr. has ten credits to his name, of which only four use a comma, but six credits don't - what do we do then? I very much fear that this line of reasoning will leave the door open for people like Skip to come along and say: "no standardizing, majority wins, so no comma it is". Do we really want to go down that road? Yes... since that is the way we are told to do it... as I said... the rules tells us to use the look-up tool to determine when the Credited As is to be used. That is the whole idea of the look-up tool that Ken gave us... that is what his decision is as of this point. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Standardisation would be good, so always with the comma (or always without). Reduces the need to use any form of intelligence or argument. However, I don't see a particular benefit to using the Credited As feature at all for these simple cases. There wouldn't be two different actors, one with and one without the comma.(Or if there would be, use BY  ) | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | We DON't and NEVER have standaradized names, Staid. IMDb does that and that is part of the reason they are a total WRECK.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim: I just love when you don't like something, you come running here with, Whhaaaaaaaa the big bad Skip is picking on me again, help me. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Tim:
I just love when you don't like something, you come running here with, Whhaaaaaaaa the big bad Skip is picking on me again, help me.
Skip I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer; I'll just leave you with the poll results and the questions I asked. I seriously cannot imagine you want to go down this road. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,022 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Tim, you wantb to be an $56 be one by all means. Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Tim:
It's simple perhaps TOO simple for you to understand. Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Then there are the other JERKS like lyonsden5 who want to try and force things to bve done as they want them Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
then ther are other users who couldn't create a decent scan if there very lives depended on it Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
you all play STUPID and pretend that you can't figure out the simplest things and wind making things a MESS.  Did you miss anyone out? | | |  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You asked no question seriously, Tim. I refer to you to your first post, crybaby. In which you came roarig in here and used my name NUMEROUS time, which is guaranteed to slant the poll results.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,022 |
| | Posted: | | | | And for the record I agree with Pete, the tool has been provided by Ken to use and the rules state how to use it.
The only thing you can do Tim IMO is to perhaps make a recommendation for a rules change and see how people feel about it
RR | | | |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
In which you came roarig in here and used my name NUMEROUS time, which is guaranteed to slant the poll results. Ya think? I wonder why... |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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