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    Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
What's with all the BD is better than HD/HD is better than BD BS???
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I don't understand some of you. It's as if you have something to gain by bashing one format over another. To be clear, I have seen this from fanboys in both camps. Does it really make you feel bigger or better after you ridicule someone who owns a player from the opposite "camp"?
I own both because there are titles on each format not available on the other and I don't get all the fanboy "my-daddy-can-beat-up-your-daddy-and-because-of-that-I'm-better-than-you" rhetoric.

These are nothing more than tools to view your movies.
Dan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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Registered: May 19, 2007
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My DVD is better than your DVD.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnolesrule
Registered: 09/21/2000
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Well, I think the idea is that two formats won't work for the general public either because they don't want to pay for it or because they don't want to donate space for 2 players. The simplest, least expensive way to overcome those limitations is to eliminate one of the formats. And HD formats won't survive without adoption from the general public.

And, technologically speaking, purely in terms of A/V quality for movies, Blu-ray does have the greater potential due to higher capacity and bandwidth. I say potential because anyone can make something look terrible if they wanted to (or were incompetent) regardless of bandwidth.
 Last edited: by nolesrule
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
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That's all well and good but why would that give anyone reason to ridicule another for their choice?
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnolesrule
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It doesn't. Nobody should be ridiculing anybody else, whether on this topic or any other. But it seems some people take the whole thing personally.
 Last edited: by nolesrule
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting nolesrule:
Quote:
And, technologically speaking, purely in terms of A/V quality for movies, Blu-ray does have the greater potential due to higher capacity and bandwidth. I say potential because anyone can make something look terrible if they wanted to (or were incompetent) regardless of bandwidth.


As someone who owns both formats, I'd have to say that I've not seen that potential actually realized as of yet.  My best HD DVDs look every bit as good as my best Blu-rays.  Bigger is better.  But you also reach a point where you can no longer see or hear "better".  In my opinion, when discussing A/V, 30GB really is good enough.  And I honestly hope that someday that statement will be proved wrong.  But in my opinion, it hasn't happened yet.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnolesrule
Registered: 09/21/2000
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Well, I don't have either format (yet, but I will be going Blu once I get spouse approval on the expense), so I can't make the comparison. I don't doubt that it'd be difficult to notice.

However, there has not been a title released in both formats that maximized the potential of each format in order to make a real comparison. Just about every dual release has used the HD DVD encode on Blu-ray as well, so they should look identical.
 Last edited: by nolesrule
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantraymagnu
Registered: November 1, 2007
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I don't like the bashing eather, even though I have chosen my format. Personelly i wouldn't mind if both formats did survive, but as long they deside to have a war I've gone with the format I have the most faith in, not only as a filmstorage device, as a storage device in general, therefor I'm Blu. I think there could be room for both formats, and they need to start focusing on they're real enemy in the format war, as they are starting to realise now, the old DVD format wich is still groing strong. Some how SD and 576i is still good enough for the general public. And I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in Norway these days you can buy 4 good DVD's for the average prise of a BD or HD-DVD, that's something that is hard to bargain with.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting nolesrule:
Quote:
Well, I don't have either format (yet, but I will be going Blu once I get spouse approval on the expense), so I can't make the comparison. I don't doubt that it'd be difficult to notice.


I don't dabble in such things personally.  But I've followed a few threads over at AVSForum.  I've seen people who are obsessive about the topic take screen captures and blow them up 200% to compare details.  And there hasn't been any trends show up that would favor one format over another.  Some of those people are downright crazy and I believe 100% that if one format was showing even a minute advantage over the other, they would have noticed and we would have heard about it.  So I don't think the extra space will ever give us better video.  Advances to the authoring tools might over time (as they did with DVD), more experience authoring discs might give us better transfers, etc.  But in my opinion, there's enough space on both formats for nearly every movie out there.

Quote:
However, there has not been a title released in both formats that maximized the potential of each format in order to make a real comparison. Just about every dual release has used the HD DVD encode on Blu-ray as well, so they should look identical.


This is a common argument.  But don't forget, the whole purpose of these codecs is to compress extremely large files into as little space as possible while retaining transparency to the master.  They're trying to fit things into less space, not make larger transfers that take up more space.  And even if they do use all the space available, there's very little likelyhood that we'd even be able to see the differences under normal viewing circumstances.  At least that's been the case so far.

Don't forget that Disney, Fox & Sony have never published on HD DVD.  So you can't make the argument that their transfers have been held back by HD DVDs 30GB limit.  So if the extra space would make a difference, you would have expected to see it show up in their releases.  So far it really hasn't.  While you can't make direct comparisons, their best titles don't seem to blow away the best HD DVD has to offer.  According to most people who have both formats, both sides A-list titles are about equal with neither side really pulling ahead of the pack.
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 Last edited: by Mark Harrison
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGorbarama
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Registered: March 17, 2007
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
I don't understand some of you. It's as if you have something to gain by bashing one format over another. To be clear, I have seen this from fanboys in both camps. Does it really make you feel bigger or better after you ridicule someone who owns a player from the opposite "camp"?
I own both because there are titles on each format not available on the other and I don't get all the fanboy "my-daddy-can-beat-up-your-daddy-and-because-of-that-I'm-better-than-you" rhetoric.

These are nothing more than tools to view your movies.


I couldn't agree more Dan...
A simple movie lover..
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnolesrule
Registered: 09/21/2000
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
This is a common argument.  But don't forget, the whole purpose of these codecs is to compress extremely large files into as little space as possible while retaining transparency to the master. 


I agree with you. And for 90% of scenes out there, it's going to be perfectly good enough. But when you get into things with fast motion, lots of explosions, moving water and the like (busy frames that are constantly in flux from one frame to the next), that's when you're compression is going to be least effective. Add to that high bitrate and/or lossless audio along with legacy audio, multiple text, audio and PIP overlays and special features and you use up the bandwidth pretty darn fast.

As for the studios you mention, sometimes I wonder, and I've never heard anyone else bring it up before, if they were trying to keep their encodes under 30 GB just in case they were to go format neutral or switch to HD DVD. It's just a theory of mine, and I'm not trying to pass it off as fact. It's a dumb idea, but I wouldn't put any dumb ideas past a hollywood studio.

But like I said earlier, it's a moot point until there is a title released on both formats that actually maxes out the potential for both formats. Otherwise, there's no way to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
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