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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Credits that are subtitled
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributoroliverw
Registered: February 28, 2008
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Denmark Posts: 13
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Hey all. This might be an old question, but I recently made a contribution to a Korean film where I was told (by a voter) that subtitled credits were not valid - which is fair enough…. but it means we have a lot of Eastern Language Experts on this site (all coming from the West).

But to the point: Are taking credits from subtitles not accepted in the rules? I can't find any documentation that they can't… I simply added "credited as" to the contribution (as well as changing some names as they were the most common ones, using CLT). The UPC is: 5023965383921 if anyone is interrested.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated - so I can update my contribution - if I am at fault.

Thanks :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Taking credits from subtitles is absolutely valid, and whomever told you that was not valid is incorrect.  I've done it many, many times and submitted it and never had issues.  You're taking the credits from the actual film credits, just translated into your language.

However, I would not use "credited as" unless they have a different common name via the CLT.  That may be what you are doing and I am misunderstanding your phrasing there.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributoroliverw
Registered: February 28, 2008
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Thanks Danae Cassandra for your reply.

Okay. That might be the issue. I added "credited as" for some of the names, because the subtitles gave them a different name. So what you are saying is that, these are not valid?

Thanks Again and Happy New Year :-)
 Last edited: by oliverw
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
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Registered: May 26, 2007
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The film in question is "I'm a Cyborg, But That's Ok," which is a Park Chan-wook film.

So, the original credits would give his name as 박찬욱

His family name is Park, his personal name is Chan-wook.

If the subtitled credits give his name as "Chan-wook Park" that is can be read as incorrect, since it is translocating the names for Western naming conventions.  However, it can be argued that listing it this way is correct, since this conveys the information of which name is family and which is personal to the Western viewing audience.

There is no rule about how to handle Asian names in Profiler.  And checking the CLT tells us that he is listed both ways (Park Chan-wook and Chan-wook Park) in profiles of the same film.  Personally, I would list him as Park Chan-wook.

I'm using him as an example, but this would apply to anyone credited in the film.

If, of course, the name that is being given in the subtitles is different than just a romanized and/or translocated version of the name, then that would make use of the credited as tool.

Just my take on things, obviously.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
There is no rule about how to handle Asian names in Profiler.

Not in the rules, no. But I've been told that Ken has stated that First, Middle and Last Name is to be treated positional, not cultural, e.g. what comes first goes into the First Name field, etc.

So if the credit is Park Chan-wook we enter it Park//Chan-wok; if it is Chan-wook Park we enter it Chan-wook//Park, and let the CLT determine which is the common name.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
But I've been told that Ken has stated that First, Middle and Last Name is to be treated positional, not cultural, e.g. what comes first goes into the First Name field, etc.

So if the credit is Park Chan-wook we enter it Park//Chan-wok; if it is Chan-wook Park we enter it Chan-wook//Park, and let the CLT determine which is the common name.


I agree that it should be treated as positional.  That would eliminate a lot of issues.  However, I would argue that if the actual credit reads 박찬욱 (Park Chan-wook) but the subtitles give it as Chan-wook Park, it should still be entered as Park Chan-wook.  If Asian cast or crew work in American or European films and their names are translocated in those credits (like Park's film Stoker, which I don't have so can't check how his name is credited there) then enter it as given on screen.  After all, Profiler rules have always been to enter credits as given - though we are translating the credit into English, we should still attempt to preserve it as close to the actual on-screen credit as possible.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
After all, Profiler rules have always been to enter credits as given
Not exactly. In case of capital letters, rules ask to transform them to small characters, with a "no accent" "non written rule" which often introduces differences between given credits and Invelos credits.

credit : FRANCOIS BERLEAND = François Berléand
Invelos credit : Francois Berleand , which is totally different from "credits as given"
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
credit : FRANCOIS BERLEAND = François Berléand
Invelos credit : Francois Berleand , which is totally different from "credits as given"

No, that is decidedly not different: that's an exact representation of that on-screen credit. Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Since "é" has a corresponding "É", simple capital conversion is all that's required.  If the character used in the all-caps name is "É", convert it to "é" as needed to create mixed case.  If the character used in all-caps is "E", convert it to "e" as needed to create mixed case.

You can keep saying that it feels wrong for you, but infinitely repeating that doesn't actually make it wrong for DVD Profiler purposes. As always, you can do whatever you like in your local database, but for the online database, É=é and E=e. And yes, that's an accurate interpretation of the on-screen credit. It may not be *your* preferred interpretation, but it's DVD Profiler's interpretation, and that's all that matters here.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
No, that is decidedly not different

You know, I do not speak nor read Korean , so I would be a stupid person or a liar to say anything about 박찬욱.  I just believe Danae Cassandra when he says it means Park Chan-wook.
But I speak and read French, and I can say that FRANCOIS BERLEAND=François Berléand and not  Francois Berleand. But you are probably so clever that you know things about French language that French people do not know...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
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But you are probably so clever that you know things about French language that French people do not know...

It's not about me, or my interpretation, or what I'd like, just like it's not about you, your interpretation, or what you'd like. If Invelos says that, when we're talking about entering cast/crew into the DVD Profiler database, we're to convert É to é  E to e, then that's the only thing that matters with regards to Invelos's database. It's really no more difficult than that: neither mine, your or anyone else's alledged "expertise" makes any difference.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,461
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
If Invelos says that, when we're talking about entering cast/crew into the DVD Profiler database, we're to convert É to é  E to e, then that's the only thing that matters with regards to Invelos's database.
Yes, but I just wrote that Invelos data is different than credits data, no more, no less. In fact, Francois Berleand is different than FRANCOIS BERLEAND, but I know that Invelos wants crap in his database. That is the reason I do not use this database, and do not contribute anymore to this mess.
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