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Kung Pow: Enter the Fist Cast help
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I was going over the profile for the cast of the martial arts spoof Kung Pow: Enter the Fist and some names in the profile don't match the credited on screen name.

Also in the profile there is no use of the Credited As to match how the name appears on screen.

I am not sure as to how to do the cast for this film.


For example the on screen credits shows the following.

Master Pain (Betty
LUNG FAI

Young Master Pain
LEO LEE

Ling
TSE LING LING


But in the profile it shows the following
Fei Lung as Master Pain (Betty)

Leo Lee as Young Master Pain

Ling Ling Tse as Ling

and so on.


What would be the correct way to enter their names and what about credited as?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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The CORRECT entry i AS CREDITED, AS you see it on the screen. Here we go again. Someone has entered INCORRECT data.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The CORRECT entry i AS CREDITED

Indeed should our profiles always reflect the data as credited on-screen - but it's important to note that the rules also require us to use the "credited as" feature "where the person's name differs from the credited name" (quoted from the contribution rules). So while the "credited as" field should indeed always contain the name as seen on-screen, the actual "name" field doesn't necessarily have to. According to the rules, you are supposed to use the most-credited form as the person's "name" (which is to be established using the "credit lookup" tool on this site), and then use the "credited as" feature to show where they're credited differently.

It's also worth noting that a group of users pleads for a standardized way of entering Chinese names (see here), but there doesn't seem to be a real consensus yet.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I glanced over that Chinese name thread and I am still confused.

I am not familiar with Chinese names to any degree that I would know what name would be the correct one to use.


Plus the variations of these names is confusing to me as well.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Registered: August 22, 2007
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There are different point of views on the subject. See the recent eleven-page thread on Chinese Names.
I personally think Last Name is just a synonym for Family Name, so I would enter those names accordingly: the Last Name in the Last Name field, and so on.
Perhaps you might want to also use the "Credited As" field, as Unicus suggested in that thread, to show that names were reversed on screen.

On the other hand, others think that "Last Name" is just the name you see last on screen, regardless of its meaning. My objections to that are as follows:
1. the usual meaning of the expression "Last Name" in English is "Family Name": dictionaries and Wikipedia can confirm that, and there is nothing in the Rules to make us think otherwise. The meaning stays the same even when we speak of Chinese Last Names: we actually mean Chinese Family Names.
2. If we didn't care of what the Family Name is, why would we bother to contribute three name fields and be able to sort names by Last Name? If we really don't care of what the Family Name is and what the Given Name is, then let's use one name field, not three;
3. If we didn't care of Family Names, why would we enter double-barreled family names in the last name field, as we always do?;
4. If you enter "John // Wayne" when it's "John Wayne" on screen, and "Wayne // John" when all credits are reversed and it's "Wayne John" on screen, you'll end up with two entries  for the same person and even the same Given Name and Family Name! 
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The CORRECT entry i AS CREDITED

Indeed should our profiles always reflect the data as credited on-screen - but it's important to note that the rules also require us to use the "credited as" feature "where the person's name differs from the credited name" (quoted from the contribution rules).

[...]

But does it differ? Or is it just us who read it in the wrong way, when it comes to Chinese credits?
The program just asks to enter the Last Name, and the Last Name is the Family Name, even when it's written in reverse order.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
But does it differ? Or is it just us who read it in the wrong way, when it comes to Chinese credits?
The program just asks to enter the Last Name, and the Last Name is the Family Name, even when it's written in reverse order.

You certainly do have a point there. I haven't participated in that debate yet, mostly because I'm personally still not entirely sure of the best way to handle these (or better yet: how to catch that in a clear, consise rule). I mainly felt that Skip's post, which, to certain (new) users, might seem to suggest that there's nothing more to entering cast & crew than simply copying everything "as credited", needed an extra note to show that things aren't that simple. As has been pointed out in other recent threads about the subject: as long as we don't get any guidance from Ken, preferably through a rules update, this will remain a minefield.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantfalcon2099
Member Since: Dec 4, 2002
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Granted: Chinese writing is read Right to Left; Top to Bottom

Granted: there is still no consensus on how to handle Eastern (Oriental) names.

The only thing we can do right now, is wait, go by what the rules state NOW and input he names "as is" on screen.  We'll have to wait for a rules revision to do otherwise.
Peter

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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If the credits are:
Western (Western language aka English, Dutch, French, German, ...) use the credit as you see: All names are Westernised.
Eastern (Eastern language aka  Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese enter the credit according there custom.
Other languages (Arabic,  Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, Austronesian languages, ...) enter the credit according their custom.
Use the writing of the region, locality where the dvd is released for (whenever possible)
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantwintermute115
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Registered: May 25, 2007
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
4. If you enter "John // Wayne" when it's "John Wayne" on screen, and "Wayne // John" when all credits are reversed and it's "Wayne John" on screen, you'll end up with two entries  for the same person and even the same Given Name and Family Name! 


Actually, another question occurs to me: gven that, so far as I can tell, Marion Morrison never legally changed his name to "John Wayne", shouldn't it count as a stage name and be parsed as "John Wayne //"?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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BTDT, Winter

@Enry:

Take note that what you refer to in the Tools Options relative to Name settings is a LOCAL decision, an option which does NOT exist in the Online. As Credited means the data ONLINE looks like it does On screen.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
BTDT, Winter

@Enry:

Take note that what you refer to in the Tools Options relative to Name settings is a LOCAL decision, an option which does NOT exist in the Online. As Credited means the data ONLINE looks like it does On screen.

Skip


I never mentioned Tools Options.

EDIT: To explain: In Tools-Options you can change the Actor Name format, but I did not refer to that.

I instead referred to the fact that (regardless of the Name format you set)  DVD Profiler sorts Actor Names by Last Name.
And why would the program do that if Last Names were not Family Names?

Why would we even care to enter names in three name fields if they had no meaning whatsoever?
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Quoting wintermute115:
Quote:

Actually, another question occurs to me: gven that, so far as I can tell, Marion Morrison never legally changed his name to "John Wayne", shouldn't it count as a stage name and be parsed as "John Wayne //"?


Good question, but personally I would leave it as "John // Wayne".
I think the examples provided in the Rules show that the Rule is intended for stage names that are just first names or fantasy names, not those in the form of Given Name and Family Name.

Quoting the Rules:
Quote:
If an actor name is only a first name or stage name enter it entirely in the first name field. Examples are Cher, Madonna, Cedric the Entertainer & Queen Latifah.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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Quoting wintermute115:
Quote:
Actually, another question occurs to me: gven that, so far as I can tell, Marion Morrison never legally changed his name to "John Wayne", shouldn't it count as a stage name and be parsed as "John Wayne //"?

We have always handled stage names which look like real names the same way as the real names. Maybe some time this will be cleared up in the rules even though it has not been a problem until now (except in forum discussions).
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
For example the on screen credits shows the following.

Master Pain (Betty
LUNG FAI

Young Master Pain
LEO LEE

Ling
TSE LING LING


But in the profile it shows the following
Fei Lung as Master Pain (Betty)

Leo Lee as Young Master Pain

Ling Ling Tse as Ling

There's clearly something wrong with the profile if your typing is correct.  Looks to me that whoever did the profile wasn't consisted.  Fei (Fai) Lung's name and Ling Ling Tse's make were inverted but not Leo Lee.  So it should be either

    Fei(Fai) Lung as Mater Pain (Betty)
    Lee Leo as Young Master Pain
    Ling Ling Tse as Ling
or
    Lung Fai as Mater Pain (Betty)
    Leo Lee as Young Master Pain
    Tse Ling Ling as Ling

Unless the profiler knows something about Leo Lee/Lee Leo that the person who did the credits didn't

I'm not sure which way should be credited but think that whatever way is used it should be consistent.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Keb:

Credited As you see them On screen. Cultural issues are a totally DIFFERENT issue. In other words somebody screwed them up and they have to be corrected. I am going to check on it right now.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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