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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Contribution Rules-Update?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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Quoting CubbyUps:
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Now this is an older film, so their is no official film site and the actor has no official site either. So you check out IMDB to discover that he goes by both names and in this film was credited as De Mort.

The big problem is - how do you know IMDB is correct?

It's like Wikipedia, only worse. It's user driven, and basically no care is taken with data. Heck, I correct things on there all the time, and despite their "it may take up to three weeks for changes to show" I have submitted things two years ago which never showed up.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Well you use IMDB as a springboard and see if other sites verify the same info.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Not to mention Ken was very clear on his thoughts on IMDB. He even went on the record to say that we couldn't even use that site for uncredited actors... so for someone that is credited... there is no chance of using them.

Plus he made it very clear when he said...

Quote:
The requirement for naming the source is not designed to allow Invelos plausible deniability.  If the submitted data came from the IMDB or another source, we need to know that so we may properly decline the submission.  Falsely stating the source of data in an attempt to bypass this will result in an immediate and permanent ban from contributing


So Ken is at this point ready to permanently ban people from contributing if he finds they use it anyway. So it don't sound like to me he is even willing to consider using them for any certain cases to me.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
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Well you use IMDB as a springboard and see if other sites verify the same info.


That is, of course, totally up to you. but if you can't document a non 3rd party database source for that info then it just can't be updated in DVDP until it is.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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The Rule says: "Please don't submit content from a third party database"

Every time I have seen Ken reinforce this he has said not to copy data from a third party source, or data that is identical to IMDb can be removed.

At no time has he ever said that IMDb cannot be used as a reference (among others) for a data that is not available on the DVD.  It should never be the sole reference, but a directive to exclude IMDb or any other source as a reference has never been made to my knowledge.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Rule says: "Please don't submit content from a third party database"

Every time I have seen Ken reinforce this he has said not to copy data from a third party source, or data that is identical to IMDb can be removed.

At no time has he ever said that IMDb cannot be used as a reference (among others) for a data that is not available on the DVD.  It should never be the sole reference, but a directive to exclude IMDb or any other source as a reference has never been made to my knowledge.



Perhaps you missed Ken's post in another thread.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:

This is not a wink wink, nudge nudge "rule".  We do not want IMDB data, or data from any third party database, entered into DVD Profiler. The reason for this is that they have invested much time and money (as we have) into generating and maintaining their database.  Copying their database is theft.  If that weren't enough reason, third party databases routinely spike their data with "poison" data - false data designed to identify and prove cases of theft.

The requirement for naming the source is not designed to allow Invelos plausible deniability.  If the submitted data came from the IMDB or another source, we need to know that so we may properly decline the submission.  Falsely stating the source of data in an attempt to bypass this will result in an immediate and permanent ban from contributing
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Rule says: "Please don't submit content from a third party database"

Every time I have seen Ken reinforce this he has said not to copy data from a third party source, or data that is identical to IMDb can be removed.

At no time has he ever said that IMDb cannot be used as a reference (among others) for a data that is not available on the DVD.  It should never be the sole reference, but a directive to exclude IMDb or any other source as a reference has never been made to my knowledge.



Perhaps you missed Ken's post in another thread.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:

This is not a wink wink, nudge nudge "rule".  We do not want IMDB data, or data from any third party database, entered into DVD Profiler. The reason for this is that they have invested much time and money (as we have) into generating and maintaining their database.  Copying their database is theft.  If that weren't enough reason, third party databases routinely spike their data with "poison" data - false data designed to identify and prove cases of theft.

The requirement for naming the source is not designed to allow Invelos plausible deniability.  If the submitted data came from the IMDB or another source, we need to know that so we may properly decline the submission.  Falsely stating the source of data in an attempt to bypass this will result in an immediate and permanent ban from contributing


No I did not miss that post and furthermore it in no way conflicts with what I said.  Nowhere does he say you cannot use IMDb as a reference.  You cannot COPY their data.  Everyone agrees!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Really???


Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Rule says: "Please don't submit content from a third party database"

Every time I have seen Ken reinforce this he has said not to copy data from a third party source, or data that is identical to IMDb can be removed.

At no time has he ever said that IMDb cannot be used as a reference (among others) for a data that is not available on the DVD.  It should never be the sole reference, but a directive to exclude IMDb or any other source as a reference has never been made to my knowledge.

What part of Ken's post makes your statement true? I see a direct conflict.
Dan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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See edit above.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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For instance, the following fileds cannot be populated based on the DVD:

SRP
Release Date
Rolenames (in some cases)
Original Title (in some cases)
CoO

If I did research at IMDb, DVDPlanet and DeepDiscount and found all three in agreement, then all three should be cited as references for that data.

I am not copying data from any 3rd party database.  I do not believe that Ken is referring to this type of reference when he prohibits "copying data from a 3rd party database".

If he is, then these fields might as well be removed from the Invelos database, as there is often no other place to find this information other than in 3rd party databases (which all of the above are).
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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If you take a piece of information from IMDB or any other third party entity, whether you lift it using software or simply type it yourself, you are copying their data. You could even reword what was on their site and it would still be the same.

Evidently, Ken needs to spell it out further since you and I are at complete disagreement on this issue.
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantdetlefs
Regd. since: 09/20/2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 273
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Besides updating the contribution rules, it might also help to link to them in a more exposed location.
E.g. as a permanent link in the top bar of the site, and maybe even directly in DVDP, e.g. in the Contribute DVD Profile dialog...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Perhaps I'm a little dumb or something, what does data and database mean in this?

Does data mean any info from a site such as IMDB, even if that data is used to help identify a person?
Does database mean any info from IMDB or does it mean only an entire cast or crew for a movie or TV Show filmography?
Or does data and database mean the same thing in this?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
If you take a piece of information from IMDB or any other third party entity, whether you lifted it using software or simply typed it yourself, you are copying their data. You could even reword what was on their site and it and it would still be the same.

Evidently, Ken needs to spell it out further since you and I are at complete disagreement on this issue.


Please explain how you intend to enter a release date into DVDP without referencing a 3rd party database. Or an SRP?  And how exactly is that "their data"?

If you can get Ken to clarify this, that would be a good thing.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting hal9g:
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No I did not miss that post and furthermore it in no way conflicts with what I said.  Nowhere does he say you cannot use IMDb as a reference.  You cannot COPY their data.  Everyone agrees!

I fully agree, specially for production years. According the rules the prod. year is defined as the year of the  theatrical release. IMDb lists the exact dates (not only the year) of the theatrical release worldwide. Using this as a reference we can decide on the prod. year according our definition. No copying of data is involved at all.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Dan W:
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You could even reword what was on their site and it would still be the same.

Rewording is definitely not copying.
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