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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
2 Contributions denied because of BY (even though I didn't add them)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting Graveworm:
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How does this happen? I don't know the inner workings of the Database BUT I suspect that what happens is that when someone finds a reason for a birth year they EDIT the Cast member to include a Birth Year (YOB). This will cause all films featuring that cast member to change including any with the "other cast member" which they sought to distinguish against therby defeating the object. I hope that what should happen is that they CREATE NEW cast member(s) with the DOB entry and change all relevant films to this new cast member(s). This would leave any which have not been audited and documented to show which DOB crew member it should mean just with the name.

This has the benefit of keeping the Data accurate but loses functionaliy until all roles are changed. If it does work, as I hope, then the screeners will have more work to ensure the master entity in the Database has not been edited to change the YOB I have started a Poll to see if others agree with this approach. It should mean that if you contribue a profile with a YOB added then you will have been the one who changed it.


I've just submitted a BY addition and I've done it the way Graveworm suggested - I created a new cast member and used replace instead of edit. It was for Peter Benson in "The Black Adder" (Disc ID: 5EB6-F03D-127A-59D6) to separate him from the Peter Benson who appears in "Masters of Horror: Pick Me Up". I'd be very interested to know, if this gets accepted, whether it makes any difference when the update is downloaded. Can anyone else keep an eye on this?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Just to expand on the above: I've only changed the child profile, I've deliberately left the parent profile (UPC: 5-014503-174620) unchanged.
This way, I'm hoping anyway, if the update does what it has in the past, then both profiles will get changed anyway. But, if we've managed to avoid the automatic spreading, then only the child profile will change.
Does that make sense?
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBehemot
Registered: Aug. 23, 2004
Registered: March 14, 2007
Norway Posts: 555
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I don't think this will help. In my database I have two actors called Jamie Anderson, one with birth year 1989 and 1 without birth year. I created the one with birth year 1989 when doing the profile for the movie "The Contract"; the actress Jamie Anderson with no birth year was already in the database. I recently made a backup of my database from my regular computer and restored this backup on another computer on which I had installed DVD Profiler. The result (on the computer where I restored the backup): There is now only 1 actor with the name Jamie Anderson - WITH birth year 1989 - and no actor with that name without a birth year.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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That's good to know Behemot. It's a shame though, I thought we'd come up with a way of getting round this problem.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbobb
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 489
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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In my opinion that is still a bad no vote as his contribution is following the rules 100%

Ken not only said on these forums a few different times if a birth year is from a previously accepted profile to just let that be known... which he did. and has it in the rules to do just that... which  again he did.


As long as he is following the rules completely... which he is... a no vote is just wrong.


Well as someone already said we will agree to disagree. I think it would do the database good to weed out even previously approved contributions with mistakes or not needed data.
If Ken & Geri feel my no vote is improper then I am sure they will ignore it.

Bobb
Do Cheshire Cats drink evaporated milk?
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeGerri Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 524
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If there is a birth year already in that contribution in cast and crew, and you just add dividers or add cast/crew, then it will be accepted. If that actor was not present and thus you add a birth year to the contribution, the contribution maybe declined if you dont supply support as to why it is needed. I am trying to keep track of all the ones that have been supported, but sometimes I need to be reminded that it is a valid cast/crew member that needs a birthyear.

-Gerri
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTom Smith
Registered: March 24, 2007
Canada Posts: 240
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Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
If there is a birth year already in that contribution in cast and crew, and you just add dividers or add cast/crew, then it will be accepted. If that actor was not present and thus you add a birth year to the contribution, the contribution maybe declined if you dont supply support as to why it is needed. I am trying to keep track of all the ones that have been supported, but sometimes I need to be reminded that it is a valid cast/crew member that needs a birthyear.

-Gerri

It's not that simple. Because birth years propagate like a virus you may end up with a change that you didn't do. You don't know where it came from, and you don't know if it's even the right birth year for that cast/crew.
Tom.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBehemot
Registered: Aug. 23, 2004
Registered: March 14, 2007
Norway Posts: 555
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I still feel that the main point one has to consider is this: Is the birth year necessary to differentiate between two actors with the same name? If it isn't, then it doesn't belong in the database, even if it's been accepted in an earlier contribution.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGadgeteer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 519
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I think it would be a good idea to have a sticky thread with the acceptable YoBs listed.
Stuart
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,777
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Quoting Gadgeteer:
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I think it would be a good idea to have a sticky thread with the acceptable YoBs listed.

Yeah, a one post locked thread that only the mods can edit.  Just keep the list at the top and let it grow, instead of cycling through what could eventually become a multi-page thread.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting northbloke:
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Great idea Graveworm.
I've always edited cast & crew to add BYs in the past, so it's definitely worth a go creating new additions to see if this solves the problem.


Yeah, but the fix for the cure is more work and more of a pain in the arse than not having it at all.

BY is one of those things that sounds good at first blush, but is a disaster when implemented.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 2,692
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One of the problems with Birth years is that these are propogating without ever having gone through the approvals process - i.e. some people probably added them to their copy of the database and then contributed headshots (and BY) to the headshot project.

Then everybody that downloaded the headshots got the bonus BY's.

So should these still not be questioned when they appear in a submission?

This also brings up the query as to why we have voting on submissions - if as soon as the person has been shown to have submitted (and obeyed the rules) then does this mean that voting should be stopped on that submission? Surely anything other than a 'yes' vote would be going against the rules? Perhaps the first person to check a submission should just say "Obeys the contribution rules" or "Doesn't obey the contribution rules" - and this will then save everybody time (and the bother of voting).
Paul
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantGraveworm
Registered: April 7, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 357
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Quoting Rifter:
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Great idea Graveworm.
I've always edited cast & crew to add BYs in the past, so it's definitely worth a go creating new additions to see if this solves the problem.


Yeah, but the fix for the cure is more work and more of a pain in the arse than not having it at all.

BY is one of those things that sounds good at first blush, but is a disaster when implemented.

Rifter anyone would think you didn't want birth years, you really should have mentioned this somewhere, next you'll be telling us you are not in favour of credited as. 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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I just have to disagree... and stand behind what I said.he did nothing to break the rules... so in my eyes... as I said in the very first line... In my opinion he did not break the rules... he followed the rules 100% so once again In My Opinion a no vote is wrong.


I agree, but it doesn't matter. Even with 11 Yes against 0 No votes, profiles now get repeatedly rejected for not providing documentation for BYs. I didn't add the BY, and have no clue who the supposed other actor is. So either I remove the BY (which we have not been instructed to do), or stop contributing cast/crew data until this is sorted out.
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 4,245
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Quoting Staid S Barr:
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I agree, but it doesn't matter. Even with 11 Yes against 0 No votes, profiles now get repeatedly rejected for not providing documentation for BYs. I didn't add the BY, and have no clue who the supposed other actor is. So either I remove the BY (which we have not been instructed to do), or stop contributing cast/crew data until this is sorted out.



The last part is exactly what I am considering in doing. Just stop contributing cast/crew that has any BYs in them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Why can't everybody just do the obvious and be done with it?

Stop using Birth Year altogether.  No more problems.  Or is that just too damn simple for all of you all?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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