Quoting skipnet50:

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You are among those who have tried to insist that Common names be used when the baseline data is erroneous and thus throwing of the name table result to begin.

Regardless of the validity of your claim regarding what I may or may not have insisted, the choice of a common name does not affect the results of the lookup tool. If you wish to stop the use of the current lookup tool to determine common names, you should direct your attention to Ken Cole. That's his creation.

Quoting skipnet50:

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So i hope you will understand when I say you have both been VERY short-sighted and your credibility level with me on this is low. I am trying to put it more politely than I have in the past, i think you both know what I refer to. I have seen this problem for a long time, and it has finally reached the point of absurdity to try and use aliases from a grossly flawed table.

I happen to agree with you on the grossly flawed table.    There's no need to attack our credibility in an effort to prove your point. It doesn't do your cause any good, nor does it make your opinion fact.

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Just a few weeks ago I changed 10 or 15 listings for Robert Downey Jr to ,Jr per film credits and I have no doubt there are many more not only for Downey but foir many others as well. I would suggest to both of yoiu that in the future you pay closer attention to what i say and stop with the knee-jerk reaction, this is not something that i have been mulling for twenty four hours, but MANY, MANY months. It is a VERY carefully conceived battle plan.

I have read what you've said. I agree that the plan is a good one. But it can't begin without Ken's approval.

If you circumvent the rule and say that the credits no longer have to come from the specific DVD release, you open a Pandora's box which we will all regret. Another example: Public domain titles are often stripped of their credits. May we now use credits from other releases as substitutes? There are questions that need to be answered and approved by Ken before you go further.

Quoting m.cellophane:

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Another example: Public domain titles are often stripped of their credits. May we now use credits from other releases as substitutes?

Thanks James. Good point (and one I wasn't aware of). I'm sure there are other examples as well. I agree 100% with you statement of

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There are questions that need to be answered and approved by Ken before you go further.

Tim:

The name tables are built around ACTUAL credits, not cultural credits. Therefore if one film credits vand and another credits Van we need to be able to record that CORRECTLY so that we can create a correct PROFILER not alias. Your comment flies in the face of accurate data, in favor of culturally friendly data that may have absolutely no relevance to ANY film credit.

There are DOZENS and DOZENS of such examples, Tim and IF you were properly copying credits you would know this. The Program cannot distinguish between upper and lower as separate data points. Therefore anything associated with such data in the Lookup Tool is currently completely bogus. The Crdeit Lookup Tool is going to report either all caps or all lower case, and that is soley dependent on how truly the users are copying the credits. It has gotten to the point where I long ago stopped accepting such changes, which have to be made manually, By the way, DiGiloramo/Digiloramo is one that immediately springs to mind, he is credited iun both forms, but he is by now means the onblyu such example.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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Tim:

The name tables are built around ACTUAL credits, not cultural credits. Therefore if one film credits vand and another credits Van we need to be able to record that CORRECTLY so that we can create a correct PROFILER not alias. Your comment flies in the face of accurate data, in favor of culturally friendly data that may have absolutely no relevance to ANY film credit.

There are DOZENS and DOZENS of such examples, Tim and IF you were properly copying credits you would know this. The Program cannot distinguish between upper and lower as separate data points. Therefore anything associated with such data in the Lookup Tool is currently completely bogus. The Crdeit Lookup Tool is going to report either all caps or all lower case, and that is soley dependent on how truly the users are copying the credits. It has gotten to the point where I long ago stopped accepting such changes, which have to be made manually, By the way, DiGiloramo/Digiloramo is one that immediately springs to mind, he is credited iun both forms, but he is by now means the onblyu such example.

Skip

You apparently didn't understand a word I said. Please read my previous post again? The variants you speak of belong only in the "credited as" field, not in the "name" field, so there's no problem at all. I did already agree with you that the "credit lookup" tool needed updating, but the program certainly doesn't need the ability you asked for.

You not understanding what I said is illustrated by the fact that when I asked you for an example, you came up with Don Digorolamo vs. Don DiGirolamo - which is something else entirely. Those name variants refer to one and the same person, and they certainly do NOT need to co-exist as separate entries next to each other. Surely you understand that wouldn't be an improvement, but making things worse? All your talk about "cultural credits" has absolutely nothing to do with it. Again: you're right in that the credt lookup tool needs to show which variant is the most prominent, but these names do NOT need to co-exist in DVD Profiler itself. I really hope you get this, but in any case I am pretty sure that Ken does, so I don't expect he will make any changes in this department.

Quoting skipnet50:

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IF you were properly copying credits you would know this.

For the record: I resent that. I AM "properly copying credits", and you know it. I truly find it saddening that you feel you have to resort to throwing around thinly veiled accusations like that. You really seem to enjoy ruining peoples reputations with unfounded throwaway lines like that, and I find it unacceptable. I put in endless hours of work in DVD Profiler (may I remind you that in comparison with you, I have twice as many contributions under my belt?), working towards a better database for all of us - like you claim to do. But when I point out a serious error in your reasoning, I get this kind of remarks... 

Quoting EnryWiki:

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I think it also depends on how you read them, and it is my impression that the Screeners read them that way.  Correct me if I am wrong. Have they ever declined a contribution that states that Cast & Crew were taken from another profile, just because of that?

Taking the cast & crew from another profile is fine.  I do it all the time.  It's a time saver.

However, by validating that cast and crew against the DVD that you are profiling you are then fulfilling the requirement of the Rules to use the DVD as the authoritative source.

Cmae:

I haven't see this yet. So far any such two part last name that I have seen cannot ditinguish between or lower, of course then ther is the ever popular variants that the program can deal deSmith/de Smith, but it can 't telll that De and de are separate pieces of data. This to the point that let's say I have DeSmith and you contribute deSmith, if I accept that, the data in my database does NOT change it will remain DeSmith because it THINKS no change is made because it cannot distinguish between the de and De, it thinks they are the same. Now because of this, I can make the change manually, but that would affect EVERY one of my entries with that person involved, thus thowing any credit which is On Screen as De out of whack. Do I like it, of course not, I have come to a semi-peaceful co-existence with it and hope that it will soon be rectified.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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Let me make this simple for you Rick and James, I understand what both of you are saying. I do NOT accept it.

It didn't need to be simplified. I understand what you are saying. I do NOT accept it. 

Quoting skipnet50:

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We have a major problem and I will do whatever is needed to try and fix it, until my hypothesis is proven invalid.

We have not been given that authority though. I could fix a lot of things on my own, but I have to work within the rules, just as you do.

Quoting skipnet50:

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I have toyed with this for a long time, it is not a snap decision,

The quickness of your decision is not at issue. It's the against-the-rules part that's causing the fuss.

Quoting skipnet50:

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but it is time to act.

This is a debatable point. Shouldn't Invelos say when it's time to act?

Quoting skipnet50:

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As for my view of your cred, I did not attack it, I made statement

Okay. So if we say it wasn't "attacking", let's just say it was a personal "statement" as you call it. Personal statments have nothing to do with determining the strength of your plan. They serve no good purpose for you. Stick to the facts of your plan.

I have said I like your plan. I think it should be evaluated by the community first so that pros and cons may be presented to Ken for his consideration on whether to continue.

Projects like these benefit from the evaluation of a wide community of users. One dedicated user cannot properly vet a plan to restructure worldwide data such as this. If your plan is a good one, it will be able to withstand the scrutiny of the user base and it will be approved by Ken.

But the urgency you feel to move forward quickly is just not a cause to trump the rules and to declare that any opposing viewpoint is to be excused as "opinion". Forcing your idea through unilaterally is not a good way to go. You wouldn't accept that from any other user. Surely you must see this.

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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IF you were properly copying credits you would know this.

For the record: I resent that. I AM "properly copying credits", and you know it. I truly find it saddening that you feel you have to resort to throwing around thinly veiled accusations like that. You really seem to enjoy ruining peoples reputations with unfounded throwaway lines like that, and I find it unacceptable. I put in endless hours of work in DVD Profiler (may I remind you that in comparison with you, I have twice as many contributions under my belt?), working towards a better database for all of us - like you claim to do. But when I point out a serious error in your reasoning, I get this kind of remarks... 

Indeed, T!M. Your updates are among the very best.

Quoting skipnet50:

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You are not the Rules God and neither am I, but i am far closer to them than you are.

This sums it up nicely - I suggest we all have t-shirts printed with this slogan. Where's that shirt-designing contest when we need it? 

Edit: I never had a sig, but this here is a serious candidate...