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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Grrrr....I'm starting a fund to bribe Ken to add a rule for everybody to shoot themselves in the head. Perhaps we can do something constructive with whoever is left.  |
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| Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 196 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is excellently ridiculous, and a great example of why a modicum of common sense is needed when it comes to making submissions.
Here's my litmus test: Does the database become more useful if this change is made? If the answer is no, then why are you making it? Go outside and play instead. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Well... if that is the case... and that IS how he is credited I would think that is how he needs to be credited in profiler... after all... the rules do says to list the names exactly as credited. Yes, the rules say to list the names exactly as credited. I don't believe his name is 'himself'.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 196 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Yes, the rules say to list the names exactly as credited. I don't believe his name is 'himself'. But if that was his name, would it be his first, last, or middle name? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting smeehrrr: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Yes, the rules say to list the names exactly as credited. I don't believe his name is 'himself'.
But if that was his name, would it be his first, last, or middle name? According to the rules, a single word name is entered into the first name field. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | The change is correct, I have exactly the same issue in "An American Werewolf in London" where the credits say:
Himself ... Kermit the Frog
Herself ... Miss Piggy
And as most of us will know Frank Oz is the puppeteer and voice of these characters, this should be entered:
Frank Oz [Himself] ... Kermit the Frog (puppeteer) (voice)
Frank Oz [Herself] ... Miss Piggy (puppeteer) (voice)
Or else we would have multiple "persons" in the database linked together sharing the same "name". | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,318 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Well... if that is the case... and that IS how he is credited I would think that is how he needs to be credited in profiler... after all... the rules do says to list the names exactly as credited.
Yes, the rules say to list the names exactly as credited. I don't believe his name is 'himself'. Yes but the rule says to list names and roles exactly as credited... And the rules state if someone is credited differently then his name to use the credited as field so if we changed it to... Craig Kilborn as Himself That would be breaking those rules. so the only option to do it per the rules would be... Craig Kilborn (himself) as Craig Kilborn May not like the rule for this instant but that don't mean we can make a decision to break the rule just because we don't like it in this case. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Yes but the rule says to list names and roles exactly as credited... And the rules state if someone is credited differently then his name to use the credited as field so if we changed it to...
Actually, the rules say: "Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name." It specifically uses the word name. It doesn't say 'credited differently. | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | | Last edited: by reybr |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,318 |
| | Posted: | | | | I still believe it is the same thing..
in this case in the name list Craig Kilborn's name is listed as Himself and his role name is listed as Craig Kilborn. so his name listed is different them his usually used name.
So yes this seems to be a correct change. | | | | Pete |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is ridiculous. Again, this seems something that only a few of the "resident geeks" - no disrespect - are concerned about. I daresay that 99% of the DVD Profiler userbase knows exactly how to handle an on-screen credit like this, and I'd very much prefer to keep it that way. I keep being amazed at how willing people are to throw every last little bit of common sense out the window, and instead seem to want to opt for the most illogical, un-user-friendly way of entering data. Some people seem to actually be looking for ways to mess up the database...  |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
This is ridiculous. ...Some people seem to actually be looking for ways to mess up the database... I'm sorry: "You talkin' to me?"  Because I can not see anything wrong with my example nor with the topic: Quote:
Someone made a contribution to a movie changing "Craig Kilborn as Himself" to Craig Kilborn [Himself] as Craig Kilborn. I find it a kind of strange to see that comment coming from someone who's using the credited as feature for missing spaces like: "J. J. Doe [J.J. Doe]". | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
This is ridiculous. ...Some people seem to actually be looking for ways to mess up the database...
I'm sorry: "You talkin' to me?" No, I wasn't...  Quote:
Because I can not see anything wrong with my example nor with the topic:
Quote:
Someone made a contribution to a movie changing "Craig Kilborn as Himself" to Craig Kilborn [Himself] as Craig Kilborn. Well, I do. I don't like it at all. Based on the on-screen credit, I feel that "Craig Kilborn as Himself" is more than enough. I really don't see why we would have to make it more complicated than it is. Quote:
I find it a kind of strange to see that comment coming from someone who's using the credited as feature for missing spaces like: "J. J. Doe [J.J. Doe]". I've picked up that practice from some American users. It's not at all different to "Robert Downey, Jr. [Robert Downey Jr.]" (or vice versa, but that's another debate). Although I don't like it at all, as of yet both Invelos and this community have failed to set any standards for these formatting choices (like: using/not using a comma preceding suffixes, how to parse initials). As long as there's no standard for entering them, we have to enter them "as credited". Again: I'd LOVE to have some standards, but as long as we don't, I'll try to work with what we have. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I've picked up that practice from some American users. Well, than I must say that's a bad habbit you need to get rid of.  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,318 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
This is ridiculous. ...Some people seem to actually be looking for ways to mess up the database...
I'm sorry: "You talkin' to me?"
No, I wasn't...
Quote:
Because I can not see anything wrong with my example nor with the topic:
Quote:
Someone made a contribution to a movie changing "Craig Kilborn as Himself" to Craig Kilborn [Himself] as Craig Kilborn.
Well, I do. I don't like it at all. Based on the on-screen credit, I feel that "Craig Kilborn as Himself" is more than enough. I really don't see why we would have to make it more complicated than it is. changing it to "Craig Kilborn as Himself" would be against the rules because that changes his credited name and his role... and the rules say to list both the name and the role exactly as credited. Quote:
Quote:
I find it a kind of strange to see that comment coming from someone who's using the credited as feature for missing spaces like: "J. J. Doe [J.J. Doe]".
I've picked up that practice from some American users. It's not at all different to "Robert Downey, Jr. [Robert Downey Jr.]" (or vice versa, but that's another debate). Although I don't like it at all, as of yet both Invelos and this community have failed to set any standards for these formatting choices (like: using/not using a comma preceding suffixes, how to parse initials). As long as there's no standard for entering them, we have to enter them "as credited". Again: I'd LOVE to have some standards, but as long as we don't, I'll try to work with what we have. You'll try to work with what we have here... but this topic looks like the same type of issue to me... there is no type of standards in the rules... that includes changing names and role names for these instances. | | | | Pete |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I've picked up that practice from some American users.
Well, than I must say that's a bad habbit you need to get rid of. For that to happen, Invelos needs to set some standards, which I've passionately pleaded for many, many times. If Invelos said that for DVD Profiler purposes, on-screen credits like "J. J. Doe" and "J.J. Doe" should be regarded as equals, and should both be entered in the same way (I don't even care in WHICH way, as long as we're consistent), then we can do without this. The same goes for Robert Downey, Jr. versus Robert Downey Jr. Invelos needs to step in and (a) declare which format we're supposed to use, and (b) if we're then supposed to use the "credited as" feature to show where they're credited differently, or if we should simply disregard THAT particular difference (only THAT one) for DVD Profiler purposes. If this doesn't happen, we're still just after the "most-credited" form, which makes it important to know whether the credit reads Robert Downey Jr. or Robert Downey, Jr. or even J.J. Doe or J. J. Doe. Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
changing it to "Craig Kilborn as Himself" would be against the rules Not it's not! Unicus69 has already indicated why this doesn't fly; also see Enry's post below. I'm doing exactly what the rules tell me: on-screen I see a name ("Craig Kilborn") and a role ("Himself"). I enter them both as credited in the appropriate fields. With that, I have followed the rules to the letter. Again: I don't see any need to complicate this any further. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Well... if that is the case... and that IS how he is credited I would think that is how he needs to be credited in profiler... after all... the rules do says to list the names exactly as credited.
Yes, the rules say to list the names exactly as credited. I don't believe his name is 'himself'. Very good point. We should just apply the Rules: enter the role in the role field. Is "Himself" a role or a name? If it's a role, as we believe (and I think we could even document that, couldn't we? ) , then it should be entered in the role field, per the Rules. BTW, it seems to me that the same logic should be applied to Chinese last names: enter them where they belong, the Last Name field. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
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