Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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This place has become...I can't even adequately describe it..but it is not positive and seems to be getting worse by the day. I saw no improvement even for the few days I was watching and lurking, except that the inmates were even more bizarre.

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I saw a change during the few days too... 

Quoting Ken Cole:

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It meets our definition of Easter Egg pretty well:

"Easter Eggs are extra features hidden on the disc and not accessible through an obvious menu option."

Inclusion as an easter egg is of the most benefit to the end user, who would otherwise be upset if they used our data to select a particular disc for purchase, took it home, and were unable to select the Japanese track.

Invelos has spoken and I'll abide by the rules. As such, I'll stop submitting Japanese audio and subtitle tracks on Warner Brothers releases.

One side note I'd like to make, Ken, is that every user is able to select said audio track, even through a menu (which, I agree, isn't obvious perhaps to everyone). Many anime fans in region 1 who prefer subs over dubs put their default language to Japanese because then the Japanese audio is automatically selected. Such users will also see the Japanese tracks on WB releases and as such, I believe the rules aren't 100% clear. The way I understood it, was if a track is encoded on a disc, it should be submited. Evidently, judging by your post this is not the case and I will abide by that. However, it might be useful to include this in the next rule set, to prevent future misunderstandings.

Finally, certain users, including me, import profiles before buying them specifically because we want to know if Japanese (or another language) is included. Not many a user will have the reflexes to check the Easter Eggs to see if they're there, instead they will filter on Audio. I agree that a side note is needed, but can't we use both: Easter Egg to describe how to access the tracks and include the tracks in the Audio/subtitles as well? Otherwise, the audio/subtitles filtering features have lost a lot of it's appeal to users looking for those languages.

Perhaps it would be useful to describe in the rules exactly what is considered to be 'standard' equipment and settings. For example, I let my BD player transcode DTS HD MA and DD TrueHD into PCM, because that's the only lossless audio track my receiver can handle. As such, those tracks will all be displayed on my receiver as PCM (and not DTS HD MA or DD TrueHD). Those are the standard settings on my receiver in my locality. Following the same logic, am I now to submit those profiles as only having PCM tracks? 

Standard settings would apply to the locality as ken has described, Region A, in this case. Region A=largely US/Canada, from that perspective you are dealing with an Easter egg, if you are RegionA Japan, then I presume that the English material would be an Easter Egg. As for Standard equipment it sounds like you have receiver that cannot handle the ACTUAl Audio information so it is making the best translation it can by taking it to PCM, I don't kmnow how many  receivers are out there can actually deaal with TrueHD or DTSMA, I know mine won't, which means i have to upgrade my receiver at some point, but that does not my current receiver is correct, it is not and I know that. But that is another issue and another story.

*Edited to remove personal comments*- Moderator

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Quoting Ken Cole:

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If the audio tracks are selectable from either the menu OR via the standard audio buttons on a standard player, they should be included as regular audio tracks.  For the purposes of this, a "standard player" is one regionally coded to the profile's locality, set to the locality's default language.

If they are not selectable via either of the above options, next to determine is whether they are selectable through an alternate button press method or alternative player configuration (not via hardware changes).  If so, enter them as an easter egg, with applicable instructions.  If not, exclude them.

As very often for rules, I hardly understand your decision. We had something rather simple (each track...), then now we'll have something quite impossible to understand for people who do not read those endless discussions. To consider a track as an easter egg is for me beyond all logic.

But it is your decision, and I'll follow the rules for contributing,.. if I still find any reason to contribute...

Quoting Unicus69:

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For those that don't understand the 'Easter Egg' approach, let me try and explain.

I have nothing against the fact to use easter egg as a "owner's guide", but I think notes are a better place for that. Anyway, not to indicate that an edition has one specifical  track may also give a wrong information. As for me, I always look at the list of tracks, and never at the easter eggs, when I want to buy a DVD.

Easter eggs are extra features that you can watch or not, without any effect on the viewing of the movie. If it is the same for you about audio tracks, I must admit that we do not have the same habits. And Easter eggs are hidden, here nothing is hidden, it is just more or less directly accessible depending of your own player settings.

Quoting Taro:

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Thanks, Ken. Just a few last questions to clear things up:

- does this mean we should stop using tools such as BDInfo.v.0.5.2 to submit data? Because that's how I first found these tracks. It's a BD analyzing tool that I use to verify the order in which audio tracks are encoded on discs, which simply displays each track as it is encoded on the disc (track order, language, encode used, bitrate per second, etc). Should I instead pop the disc in my player, change local settings to English and see what the order of the tracks is?

- Also, this set was released in Japan, with the same disc ID. If someone purchases it in Japan, should we then create a new profile with the exact same data, but only change the locality to Japan and list only English and Japanese tracks, not Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and French?

Taro:

I believe I mentioned your question, a Region A/Japan deck would i presume be set to default language of Japanese, if that is correct then the Easter Egg would be reversed, with the English, et al being the Easter egg and  Japanese being the deafult setting.

Taro just to try yet again to help you understand this. let's take a look at a classic Easter Egg

For an extra 156 minute run of the Special Edition of the film, but with the "Future Coda" scene replaced at the end (those who don't know about this scene and why it was cut have to review the DVD and movie) click on "Special Edition" from the Main Menu. On the right hand side of the screen, there should be some odd symbols. (These are actually roman numbers). Using your remote control, enter the numbers "82997"  -- the date of Judgment Day. You may have to enter each number one at a time, rather than the whole series at once. Each number entered should change the symbols into the words: "The Future Is Not Set". After everything is entered, the eyes of the Terminator will light up and a new menu entry will provide access to a different version of the movie, including the expanded alternate ending. You should now be able to click "Play Extended Special Edition". If this does not work, access Title 3 with your player. This is where the above methods deliver you. (The Future Coda scene is also directly accessible, rather than going through the big "documentary" or the 82997 method.)

There is very lttile difference conceptually between this easter Egg and the japanese hidden track. You have to punch in a special code for the movie, or in this case change the Master language settings to the deck, this makes it clearly an easter egg, and as I stated based on yiur comment regarding a Region A Japan deck, then I presume tyhe easter Egg would in all likelihood be reversed, this would seem perfectly logical to me..

I think the issue most of the time around here is total lack of understanding on at least one side. I sledom fail to understand  where someone is coming from, but if i do I try to gain clarity . What happens without lack of understanding...people talk AT each other instead of to each other. In my case I will continue to try to reach understanding by trying to modify what i am saying to seek clarity, this seemed to be a classic case to me.

The OP tried his argument with a Contribution which was DECLINED, he then tried seek ummmmsupport and sympathy for his position by bringing it to the forums, with exactly the same argument he originated with me via PM, HE originated the PM discussion not I. He then tried to make the same Contribution which had already been properly declined, with the same argument, I guess hoping he could garner support through the Forums. I even told the user that I would very happily vote Yes to an Easter Egg for this unusual dataset, which be clear to everyone that it was a SPECIAL Audio Track which had to be accessed through other than a Menu entry. I also repeatedly explained that this was not even considered as an issue in either tyhe Rules nor the ptrogram...it has only come up in the last 9 months or so. Perhaps Ken will create a Program mod for this in the future. All the user wished to do as i saw it was plead for sympathy and push his argument, while showing absolutely zero interest in a solution that while not the way he wanted it, would achieve the objective of making note of the data AND the special circumstances surrounding it. He asked about my original NO vote, I did not go to him.

As usual there are some users who have an agenda of hatred and so they villfy certain users, when they don't understand and some take what i consider to be simply childish behavior of blocking PMs, that is fin, it tells me that the user is incapable of cogent discussion. Some users who PRETEND to be all nice and rational, refuse to acknowledge when the target of their hatred asks a civil question about how his wife is doing. So yeah there is a distinct lack class and adult behavior in these Forums but it is not THIS USER.

You want discussion, good...so do I. This thread and the other one started buy the OP is so full of insulting remarks that i am shocked the Moderator did not simply REMOVE both threads, I would have in a New York minute, as there would have been so many posts to edit or remove the thread would have become completely disjointed.

For the record Ken, there is not one single reason, particularly the ones you mentioned for my end to Contributing, it is an ongoing cascade of events which would be far too lengthy to go into, at least here,m and further i would not wish to call anyone out.

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P.S. Hal, I hope you will submit a new Contribution for The Americanization of Emily and correct the order of credits which was recently corrupted.

S

Hal:

I don't blame him half as much as I do those who voted for the corruption.

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