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Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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We keep going round and round on this, so to reiterate:

- CLT results are desired but not required.

This is the instruction given to the Invelos evaluator team, who make the acceptance decisions.  If specific users choose to seek more specificity in the contribution notes, that is their prerogative.  As long as they are consistent in their policies, this is not a voting violation.  If you choose to vote no to any scan not done on a professional drum scanner, go for it.  However, users who use substantively different acceptance criteria from those used by the Invelos evaluators are only doing harm to their own accuracy rating.

Several things to keep in mind with this:
- Keep your contribution vote comments polite, or lose the right to vote.
- Make sure you are not targeting specific users with your votes - if we see a pattern against specific users on votes that run contrary to the Invelos decision, you may lose your right to vote
- Rehashing the same demand for further contribution note information in the forums is not accomplishing anything.  Further rehashing will result in bans.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 735
Posted:
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The hammer has spoken. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
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Forum Moderator: Removed
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Forum Moderator
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 2,372
Posted:
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Thanks Ken. Always appreciate any clarifications you provide. Would love to see you more often 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
- Rehashing the same demand for further contribution note information in the forums is not accomplishing anything.  Further rehashing will result in bans.

Thanks Ken.  I thought the message was fairly clear, when you posted it last month, but it seems it wasn't.  Maybe the addition of the sentence I quoted will drive the point home. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,589
Posted:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Maybe the addition of the sentence I quoted will drive the point home. 

Let's hope so.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,414
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Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:


We are not going to continue to hash this out. If a user chooses to submit without specific CLT results, they may do so and their contribution may still be accepted depending on a variety of factors, including contribution history.

Voting users may choose to request further details and a "No" vote if the details aren't provided is not an abuse of the voting system. 

Further discussion on this will only lead to argument.

So, yes, you can vote 'no' if CLT results are not included, but they don't have to be.


This has got to be the all-time worst ruling from Ken.

It's one of those 'sit-on-the-fence' rulings that actually doesn't mean very much.

A. You don't have to include CLT results in your notes.
B. People can vote NO if you don't.
C. Either way the contribution may go through.

It leaves the contributor with no clear idea on what they should do.


Sure it does.  It leaves you as the contributor the choice to include CLT results, but if you don't, you run the risk of people voting no and possibly the contribution not going through.  If that doesn't bother you, then fine.  It's in or it's not and it's just up to the reviewers. If you submit with a goal of having it approved, and that's of importance to you, then you're well advised to include the CLT results.  It's a good compromise between loosey-goosey and totally anal.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting gardibolt:
Quote:
It's a good compromise between loosey-goosey and totally anal.

No it's not. It cannot be that difficult decide if the values are mandatory or not. Is it?

Personally I don't see any point including them, since values changes all the time. Which might be correct now can be incorrect tomorrow.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,414
Posted:
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting gardibolt:
Quote:
It's a good compromise between loosey-goosey and totally anal.

No it's not. It cannot be that difficult decide if the values are mandatory or not. Is it?

Personally I don't see any point including them, since values changes all the time. Which might be correct now can be incorrect tomorrow.


It's really not important to anyone except the contributor.  If the contributor cares, he'll include the CLT.  If not, he won't bother.  If he doesn't, you can vote no.  If it's good data, you can vote yes.  The reviewers are free to ignore the no voters.  Why does this have to be a rule?  Do what you want, but your chances of being approved are probably better if you include the CLT results.  Don't get so wound up about it, please.  It's a world full of grey.

And it's correct that the values change over time; including the CLT gives a historical record in the notes that makes it clear that you weren't fudging in an earlier contribution when they change.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting gardibolt:
Quote:
It's a good compromise between loosey-goosey and totally anal.

No it's not. It cannot be that difficult decide if the values are mandatory or not. Is it?

But Ken did decide...while they are desired, they are not mandatory.  You can vote 'no' to contributions that don't include them but, if that is your sole reason for voting 'no', you are only hurting your own reputation.  Seems pretty clear to me.

Quote:
Personally I don't see any point including them, since values changes all the time. Which might be correct now can be incorrect tomorrow.

I think you are exagerating just a bit.  I have looked at results, several days apart, and they have been exactly the same.  While it is possible that they will change, I doubt that they change that much in the few days it takes to vote.  Including the CLT results is a nice way of showing that you actually looked at them.  Speaking for myself, I always include them and, if this were my program, I would make them mandatory.  This is not, however, my program.  Ken has decided that they are not mandatory and I can live with that.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
Posted:
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But if they are mandatory why voting no is allowed? That's the point I don't get. I also always include 'em, but feel stupid every time doing so
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
But if they are mandatory why voting no is allowed? That's the point I don't get. I also always include 'em, but feel stupid every time doing so

Maybe I am missing something, but they are NOT mandatory.  They are desired, even helpful, but not mandatory.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
Posted:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
But if they are mandatory why voting no is allowed? That's the point I don't get. I also always include 'em, but feel stupid every time doing so

Maybe I am missing something, but they are NOT mandatory.  They are desired, even helpful, but not mandatory.

Ups, I missed a word. I ment to write "But if they are not mandatory"
 Last edited: by Kulju
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
But if they are mandatory why voting no is allowed? That's the point I don't get. I also always include 'em, but feel stupid every time doing so

Maybe I am missing something, but they are NOT mandatory.  They are desired, even helpful, but not mandatory.

Ups, I missed a word. I ment to write "But if they are not mandatory"

Good question.  That I don't understand.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
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