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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Genre changes
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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This is an issue in a few updates of mine. Just wanted to run it by you all. My understanding is changing genres is fine if the current ones are clearly deficient (i.e. not listing disaster for Category 7: End of the World or not listing accessories for Digital Video Essentials) or if it's a part of a larger update. For instance: if I were fixing bad audio tracks on Futurama and decided it was better listed as Television, Animation, Comedy than Television, Animation Science Fiction (I'm not asking whether you agree with this particular change, just whether this sort of thing is ok in principle). Do we have general agreement on this?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
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Assuming I (or you or anyone else) agrees with the change, yes.

The problem though is because genre is so subjective, you'll often get "No" votes because of how people perceive each genre. While the contribution itself is fine, so are the "No" votes.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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exactly... which is why I don't even worry about changing the online database genres. I just change it locally and lock them. Not worth trying to get the online changed.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Ace:

The Rules very clearly state:

Genre
Genres are often a matter of personal interpretation, which can differ among users. If your personal preference for Genre differs from the main database, you can store the information you prefer in your local database and lock the Genre field from further updates. Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect.

Custom genres are for local use only and will not be included in the contributed profile. Additionally, although up to five genres may be assigned in your local database, only the top three non-custom genres will be contributed.

This is not about Genre by Ace. Just follow the Rules. In short accoring to the Rules if your opuinion differs from what is on the record, keep it local.
.
Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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I don't mind if someone adds genres - sometimes they are needed - and I add them also. The one thing I don't contribute, because they are so subjective , is the order in which the genres are listed.

The problem for me is I am a bit obsessive. For example if I have 2 versions of the same movie I want the genres to match exactly - including the order in which they are listed. So, like Pete, I lock my genres so they won't get overwritten.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
For instance: if I were fixing bad audio tracks on Futurama and decided it was better listed as Television, Animation, Comedy than Television, Animation Science Fiction (I'm not asking whether you agree with this particular change, just whether this sort of thing is ok in principle). Do we have general agreement on this?

The rule is fairly clear, "Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect."  In your example, you are re-ordering the genres, and that is not allowed.

After thinking about it for a minute, before I hit submit, I think I see where the confusion is.  You are reading this as a 'do not make genre only contributions' rule.  While I can see where you are getting that from, I never read it that way.  I always read it as, don't change the genres unless they are blatantly wrong.  Because of that, I almost never mess with them.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I always read it the same as you Martian
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As do I , Pete. And I repeat it's not Genre by Ace.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
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The rule is to prevent ping-ponging of genre order. If there's a valid contribution being made with other changes, there's nothing in the rules to prevent reordering/changing the genres. 

However, two points:

- There should be a specific reasoning listed for the reorder, listed in the contribution notes
- Even with a reason, you should expect a larger chance to draw No votes from users who disagree with the reorder.

It is likely the contribution will be declined if there is a significant resistance to the genre changes, so all things being equal it is advisable to leave the genre changes local unless you have a good reason to change them and expect consensus.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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The Zombie speaks with wisdom.  It must be all those 'Braaaaiiiiinnnnssss'. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Ace:

The Rules very clearly state:

Genre
Genres are often a matter of personal interpretation, which can differ among users. If your personal preference for Genre differs from the main database, you can store the information you prefer in your local database and lock the Genre field from further updates. Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect.
.
Skip


Let's quote that again:

Quote:
Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect.


That seems to says changing or re-ordering genres is okay so long as it's not the only thing the update does. You can make an update to just genres if there is a clear problem with the existing ones. My examples all seem to fall under one or the other of these categories. None of them were a re-order.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Ace:

The one thing that still remains is it is NOT Genre by Ace. The martian also explained not only how you interpret it but how he has always seen it and others have agreed that he is indeed correct. For some reason you fixate on genre, I don't know why,it is such an insignificant issue but you seem to believe that the Opnline should obey your whims on genre and that only your opinion is valid and tyou feel free to remove data, not just change or re-order but remove if t doesn't float your boat. you may find this believe, ace but thou are not the God of genre, neither am I. If all the boxes are filled I don't remove or change ANYTHING unless I can make a very good case for it, I never re-order Genre that is in place for any reason. The only place where I am God of genre is in my local, the same is true for you, this is not much different thann the now famous STIV battle over Comedy. yes it has comedic elements, btu the Genre listed was and IS Sci-Fi/Action/Adventure, the boxes for the Online are FULL and Comedy is no more correct than the existing and perhaps slightly LESS, but that wasn't what YOU wanted it to be...remember. Like the rules if don't agree with the Genre that is listed, lock it and keep it locally. Stop trying to present Genre by Ace. Stop removing data that is valid even though you might not personally agree with it, the rules allow for that. There is no need to re-order the genre data EVER, that is nothing more tyhan YOUR personal preference over someone else's opinion which sets the stage for ping pong.

Just follow the Rules, Ace.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
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Ace is absolutely correct - changing genres is not against the rules, as long as either a) there are other changes required and included -OR- b) the genres are blatantly incorrect.

The caveats I listed above apply to the wisdom of making the contribution, but there is nothing rule-violating about a contribution that meets one or both of the above requirements.

I'll trust this ends the discussion of whether these are against the rules.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Ken:

As I stated in the case of Ace, in every case he is simply supplanting his opinion over that of another user, which is what leads to ping ponging and is IMHO dead wrong. If a Genre is baltantly wrong that is one thing, but in thousands of titles in my collection and wishlist this is a genuine rarity. It would by wrong to call North By Northwest a Comedy or a Documentary.     , if such a thing existed it would be absolutely correct to change it. I agree. I just have a problem when people start trying to force their own personal preference over existing data, that to ME is also wrong. As I said when all boxes arefilled and assuming they are coorect, not necessarily correct to ME, but correct (in other words can i see where somebody is coming from) then fine and i don't touch it. re-ordering genre (the same data) that to is personal preference and serves no function, except allowing users to manipulate the Online to their own wishes and I won't do it. Maube i am a dummy but don't understand users who do or will, So I hope you will pardon for taking an unyielding position but I watched what happens when personal preference runs amuck in the database, complete with constant changes in overviews. I scrupulously try and avoid such things.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
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You are certainly welcome to disagree with a particular change in genres - the best avenue for that is a No vote with a brief polite note. 

I'm just answering the op's question, which is whether these contributions are ok by the rules, and they are.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Many of us watched what happens when personal preference ran amuck, but that was literally YEARS ago.    The contribution system now has checks and balances in place so that doesn't happen any more.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:

I'll trust this ends the discussion of whether these are against the rules.

If only it were that easy. 

EDIT: Thank you posting an official position before this thread got out of hand. 
 Last edited: by lyonsden5
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