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Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
To be nerdy and nitpicky, "Not-rated" generally means it never saw a ratings board and "Unrated" means it has, but was not given a rating. (IIRC). 


If only the studios would stick to something like that!  However, given their propensity for splashing "Unrated!!!" on the cover of every other teen flick with a slightly modified version that was never rated, they've muddied those waters. 
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 332
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
It's not indicating that a non-rated version exists, but that no rated version exists.  Look again - the rule does not say "a no rated version" - it says "no rated version".


The wording sucks.  As pointed out by others, the parsing of said wording is being interpreted a few ways.

I think I see where you are trying to come from.  It seems that you are trying to say: "If the release is a single version and if there is no rating listed on the Blu-ray/DVD cover, NR shall be used. Otherwise the rating listed on the Blu-ray/DVD cover must be used."

The discussion, or so I thought, was about dual version releases (or even more than two versions), and what is to be used for the rating in the profile, if there is a rating for one of the versions and no rating for the other version.

I have no problem with a single version release.  To keep the rule from being misread, it needs to specifically mention single version releases and multi-version releases.

That said, ideally, multi-version releases need separate profiles for each version in the release.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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The discussion is about dual-version discs, but the rule covers both single- and dual-versions.  Some discs have a rated version on them, others have no rated version on them.  The first get a NR, the second get a rating.  All under the current rule, of course, subject to change as being currently considered.

As to multi-versions, this is already possible assuming they're on separate discs or at least separate sides of a disc.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
To be nerdy and nitpicky, "Not-rated" generally means it never saw a ratings board and "Unrated" means it has, but was not given a rating. (IIRC). 


If only the studios would stick to something like that!  However, given their propensity for splashing "Unrated!!!" on the cover of every other teen flick with a slightly modified version that was never rated, they've muddied those waters. 

LOL, Ken. If only we could get the Studios to make logical sense in ANY way. Then we would have nothing to talk about.< humming...sweet dreams are made of this) or I can do my Satchmo...What a Wonderful World....
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 332
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
but the rule covers both single- and dual-versions.


IMHO, mind you, it is poorly written.

Quote:
As to multi-versions, this is already possible assuming they're on separate discs or at least separate sides of a disc.


Yes, it is possible, but the rule does not force the ultimate parent/child profiles.  It is possible that the two versions in the release having different cast lists, because the un-rated version put scenes back in that contained cast members that ended up on the cutting room floor in the rated version.  A single profile doesn't handle the cast lists very well.

Changing the rule to say that separate profiles be created for said multi-version releases is kindof a must. I know, initial single profiles can be created until all profiles can be supported and this is where if the purpose of the release is the un-rated version, then NR should be used and all other info pertaining to the un-rated version be used in the profile, not the info and rating from the rated version.  Once the initial database entry is created, then the separate children profiles can be created and the parent profile trimmed.

Is there a rule to force parent/child contributions?

If both versions are on the same side of the dual layer disc, all hell breaks loose.  At that point the profile should be the version that is the main purpose of the release.

There are a lot of ifs, ands or butts when dealing with trying to generically database Blu-ray/DVD releases.

I can see why you look like you do in your avatar 
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
but the rule covers both single- and dual-versions.


IMHO, mind you, it is poorly written.

Quote:
As to multi-versions, this is already possible assuming they're on separate discs or at least separate sides of a disc.


Yes, it is possible, but the rule does not force the ultimate parent/child profiles.  It is possible that the two versions in the release having different cast lists, because the un-rated version put scenes back in that contained cast members that ended up on the cutting room floor in the rated version.  A single profile doesn't handle the cast lists very well.

Changing the rule to say that separate profiles be created for said multi-version releases is kindof a must. I know, initial single profiles can be created until all profiles can be supported and this is where if the purpose of the release is the un-rated version, then NR should be used and all other info pertaining to the un-rated version be used in the profile, not the info and rating from the rated version.  Once the initial database entry is created, then the separate children profiles can be created and the parent profile trimmed.

Is there a rule to force parent/child contributions?

If both versions are on the same side of the dual layer disc, all hell breaks loose.  At that point the profile should be the version that is the main purpose of the release.

There are a lot of ifs, ands or butts when dealing with trying to generically database Blu-ray/DVD releases.

I can see why you look like you do in your avatar

You don't know the half of it.<slaps self>  
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 332
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
You don't know the half of it.<slaps self>  


I'm trying to learn 
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantLewpy
Registered: June 5, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 93
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
My stance is, and always has been, that the profile should reflect the item purchased.  So if I buy the 'Unrated Extended Edition', all the data in the profile should match the unrated extended version that is on the disc.  Rating, runtime, audio, video, everything should match what was purchased.  Nothing, and I mean nothing, should match the bonus version that was included.  JMHO.

This is where the UK and USA differs vastly 
In the UK, if a DVD version of "Bambi" was released with a bonus film copy of "Terminator", then it would be rated '18' (not 'U' for "Bambi", even with the traumatic death scene  ). We have the BBFC, they rate everything on the disk (main feature and extras), and the highest rating is selected for the overall rating. And that is the law: it is an offence to sell to someone under that age. Of course, parents can buy and then ignore the rating, but that is a different social commentary [track]

Edit: Okay, "Terminator" was a bad example, because they re-rated that as "15" for DVD release (originally was "18"), but the point still stands 
You can download higher resolution versions of any of my cover scans from here
 Last edited: by Lewpy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStidi
Ride on!
Registered: August 4, 2008
Finland Posts: 7
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This conversation makes me more sure that I made a right decision last year when I decided I don't anymore send covers. But the program is great and make easier to organisize own collection.  I just withdraw two covers which I sent after many months brake. I understand the rules but if existing cover is bad (sometimes pure crap) and the better one is declined just because the different hologram or something else redicilious reason, it's senseless. So keep your covers and I keep mine. It's very common that the archive offers bad covers even with wrong UPC so I can't understand the logic of all this. How those covers have been accepted???? But anyway I tried after a brake and now it's time to keep another at least a year long brake.

Especially I feel sorry for Fiinnish users because I have hundreds of better covers but I don't anymore bother contribute them because it's so frustrating to see this neurotic rule game without common sense.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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There is common sense, Stidi, perhaps just not what YOU see as common sense. Since I have never seen any of what you are referring I can't address specifics.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Stidi:
Quote:
So keep your covers and I keep mine.

That's the way it has to be then if you don't want to play by the rules. I prefere correct covers with less quality over incorrect with HQ any day.
Quote:

It's very common that the archive offers bad covers even with wrong UPC so I can't understand the logic of all this. How those covers have been accepted????

Propably by mistake. Mistakes should fixed and prevent them to happen again. That's where the rules are and voting step in.
Quote:

Especially I feel sorry for Fiinnish users because I have hundreds of better covers but I don't anymore bother contribute them because it's so frustrating to see this neurotic rule game without common sense.

Just stop being a baby. If your covers are from original release and better than existing, why on earth would someone vote no? Latter one is a matter of opinion though. Everyone one get some no votes sometimes. It's not personal.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Kulju:
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That's the way it has to be then if you don't want to play by the rules. I prefere correct covers with less quality over incorrect with HQ any day.

IMO covers from 2nd editions where the only change is a small logo, a hologram, a cover copyright year, or something similar small are as good as the first release and I do accept a good quality 2nd edition cover scan any time over a really bad first edition one.

Note: I'm not talking about covers with completely different cover art and content which are typical for "real" re-releases. I'm talking about the small changes which are made from pressing to pressing.

2nd note: I do not contribute 2nd edition covers.
 Last edited: by RHo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 332
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Note: I'm not talking about covers with completely different cover art and content which are typical for "real" re-releases. I'm talking about the small changes which are made from pressing to pressing.


But, a true 2nd edition (re-release) will get a brand new UPC, which would warrant the new cover.  A re-issue with the same UPC and minor cover change is a different story.  If the original issue cover is a piece of crap, I'd accept the re-issue's cover, if it only contains cosmetic changes.  A completely redesigned cover, by the rules, would not be accepted.

If you bought the re-issue, that means you'll have to scan the cover and add it to you collection, so that your data is correct.  That said, do the rules allow for the re-issue to be placed online using the disc IDs, IFF the disc IDs are different?  That way, those who bought the rei-issue will get the correct cover art.

@Stidi: I understand that English is not your native language, so I just want to mention that it isn't "brake" but "break".  Brake is what you do when you stop your car. 
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Kulju:
Quote:

That's the way it has to be then if you don't want to play by the rules. I prefere correct covers with less quality over incorrect with HQ any day.

IMO covers from 2nd editions where the only change is a small logo, a hologram, a cover copyright year, or something similar small are as good as the first release and I do accept a good quality 2nd edition cover scan any time over a really bad first edition one.

Note: I'm not talking about covers with completely different cover art and content which are typical for "real" re-releases. I'm talking about the small changes which are made from pressing to pressing.

2nd note: I do not contribute 2nd edition covers.

And THAT is clearly not following the Rules, Rho, either in spirit or in fact.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Note: I'm not talking about covers with completely different cover art and content which are typical for "real" re-releases. I'm talking about the small changes which are made from pressing to pressing.


But, a true 2nd edition (re-release) will get a brand new UPC, which would warrant the new cover.  A re-issue with the same UPC and minor cover change is a different story.  If the original issue cover is a piece of crap, I'd accept the re-issue's cover, if it only contains cosmetic changes.  A completely redesigned cover, by the rules, would not be accepted.

If you bought the re-issue, that means you'll have to scan the cover and add it to you collection, so that your data is correct.  That said, do the rules allow for the re-issue to be placed online using the disc IDs, IFF the disc IDs are different?  That way, those who bought the rei-issue will get the correct cover art.

@Stidi: I understand that English is not your native language, so I just want to mention that it isn't "brake" but "break".  Brake is what you do when you stop your car. 

Not at all true, Mr. V. It happens all the time that covers and changed and the UPC is NOT.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,319
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I have seen this as well... not only cover changed but also the disc itself... like only full framed version when original release had both widescreen and full framed. But yet still has the same UPC.
Pete
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