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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Raiders of the lost ark contribution |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 235 |
| | Posted: | | | | I recently contributed US version of Raiders of the lost ark to correct creditation for cast member Malcolm Weaver. I received a lot of no votes for lack of documentation. I have updated the notes now with documentation, so if you please could reconsider your votes. I don't think a contribution pops up as unvoted if contribution notes are updated, does it? I any case, I hope most of you no voters read this, so I don't have to PM all of you. Thanks  | | | | DVD Profiler på Dansk |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I feel a feature request in there somewhere - it would be very useful to know something we've already voted on has been changed. Currently the only way is to resubmit the contribution - that would wipe out all the votes. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mikkel:
No that I don't want to but...Is IndianaJones.de tied in anyway to Lucasfilm, what are their bona fides or are they just repeating a possible error found elsewhere. I am far more interested in them than I am then IMDb data. I'm going to go check and see what I can at Lucasfilm.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have checked the OFFICIAL Lucasfilm site and they were no help one way or the other, Mikkel. Sorry.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 235 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are really stubborn, Skip!  You want me to call the guy up, tape the conversation and put it on the site for documentation? Oh wait, the phone call could be rigged. Thing is, we have several sites indicating this (even more in the other user responses). How about, if I ever find any indication of a Malcom Weaver somewhere outthere one day, I promise to change it back (you do the same)? | | | | DVD Profiler på Dansk |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | LOL, Mikkel. I am not trying to be stubborn. I am actually trying to figure out how to help you, Lucasfilm was no use, so I am trying to think of something else. Maybe after a good night's sleep i wiill come up with something. I am sorry I don't trust third party datasources, particul;arly for something like this, if I can come up with something you'll be the first to hear about it. Keep your fingers crossed.
I also don't like voters supplying documentation, I know they mean well, but unfortunately they do not become part of the record for the title. Once it is accepted or declined all user votes and comments are GONE, the only thing that is permanent are YOUR notes. That is why you will never see anything like that ever in my vote notes.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mikkel:
So far everything I have tried leads me right back to the same source for the data, either directly or indirectly. The .de site you list, its pretty apparent where their data came from. But I am trying.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 235 |
| | Posted: | | | | But at the end of the day, everything you find on the web is 3rd party. Nothing you will find is final proof of anything so no matter what you do you cannot be sure that the database is accurate. If this change isn't made to the profile, it might be just as inaccurate as if it is made. Only, we have some indications that this change is correct - we have NO indication that Malcom Weaver and Malcolm Weaver are two different people. | | | | DVD Profiler på Dansk |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mikl: Quote:
But at the end of the day, everything you find on the web is 3rd party. Nothing you will find is final proof of anything so no matter what you do you cannot be sure that the database is accurate. If this change isn't made to the profile, it might be just as inaccurate as if it is made. Only, we have some indications that this change is correct - we have NO indication that Malcom Weaver and Malcolm Weaver are two different people. Correct! There are a few users that are a bit TOO hung up on details. How can one possibly supply absolute proof that "Malcom" is just a simple typo where "Malcolm" was meant? Maybe if said actor had some kind of official website, but else? There's just no absolute proof, but IMHO that's no reason not to link him with his other credits. I'd rather reverse things: as mikl says, there's no indication whatsoever that Malcom Weaver and Malcolm Weaver are two different people. Therefore, I'd prefer to link those credits together. The degree of proof some users demand is simply not available for thousands of lesser-known actors, and that cannot be the reason to keep having multiple entries for these people in our database for all eternity. In short: Dozens, maybe hundreds of internetsites list this actor as Malcolm Weaver. There's no indication whatsoever that an actor named Malcom Weaver actually exists. Why should DVD Profiler be the ONLY movie database to not link his 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' together with his other credits? Because we should be the most accurate? Don't make me laugh... I'll tell you what accuracy is: it's listing him as "Malcolm Weaver, credited as Malcom Weaver". |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | The BFI db confirms that Malcolm Weaver was in the cast of ROTLA Cast RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK: http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/325952?view=cast Filmography WEAVER, Malcolm: http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/individual/443216?view=credit On top of that, Malcom is a most likely misspelling for Malcolm!  | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim:
I don't appreciate your demeaning and insulting remark. the difference is that I am not willing to make an assumption that Malcom is a typo. You are and you are also far more prone to making mistales because of that willingness. Thanks for finding the BFI, Enry that is an authoritative source I can buy and one I hadn't thought of, i was going to check the Academy sight but I think BFI is sufficient.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Tim:
I don't appreciate your demeaning and insulting remark. I don't appreciate you calling my remarks "demeaning and insulting" when they were no such thing. Honestly, I re-read my post carefully, and I don't see it. I didn't even mention you, but apart from that I don't think I was offensive in any way. But I do see I've gotten a negative rating for it... amazing! Is this really the kind of thing that warrants a negative rating? If that's true, I should be handing them out a lot more, but I'd rather not. I'm just trying to explain that there are literally thousands of minor name variants like this for which no "absolute proof" can be found, and I'll happily do it again. Anyway, it's good to see that you're willing to accept BFI as a source, although I don't see why. It's a third party database like any other - it's not at all different to IMDb, for instance. My point is that dozens, maybe hundreds of websites show that Malcolm Weaver played in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. Not just imdb.com and bfi.org.uk, but also allmovie.com, tcmdb.com, answers.com, hollywood.com, moviesonline.ca, movies.yahoo.com, indianajones.com and countless others. Who's to decide which ones are "reliable" and which ones are not? To me, the fact that so many websites list him as "Malcolm", combined with the fact that we have no indication whatsoever that an Malcom Weaver actually exists, is more than enough. Sure, there's no "absolute proof" - not even BFI.org.uk constitutes as much. Adding it all up, it just seems very likely. And unfortunately, that's all we have in this case - and thousands of other cases as well. If we're striving to correctly link these kind of name variants (in this case: typo's) together, you're going to need to be able to accept that sometimes "very likely" is the best we can do. As of yet, you've often displayed a tendency to keep correct data out of the database by demanding a level of proof that simply does not exist. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Permit me to help you then Tim Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting mikl:
Quote:
But at the end of the day, everything you find on the web is 3rd party. Nothing you will find is final proof of anything so no matter what you do you cannot be sure that the database is accurate. If this change isn't made to the profile, it might be just as inaccurate as if it is made. Only, we have some indications that this change is correct - we have NO indication that Malcom Weaver and Malcolm Weaver are two different people.
Correct! There are a few users that are a bit TOO hung up on details. How can one possibly supply absolute proof that "Malcom" is just a simple typo where "Malcolm" was meant? Maybe if said actor had some kind of official website, but else? There's just no absolute proof, but IMHO that's no reason not to link him with his other credits. I'd rather reverse things: as mikl says, there's no indication whatsoever that Malcom Weaver and Malcolm Weaver are two different people. Therefore, I'd prefer to link those credits together. The degree of proof some users demand is simply not available for thousands of lesser-known actors, and that cannot be the reason to keep having multiple entries for these people in our database for all eternity.
In short: Dozens, maybe hundreds of internetsites list this actor as Malcolm Weaver. There's no indication whatsoever that an actor named Malcom Weaver actually exists. Why should DVD Profiler be the ONLY movie database to not link his 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' together with his other credits? Because we should be the most accurate? Don't make me laugh... I'll tell you what accuracy is: it's listing him as "Malcolm Weaver, credited as Malcom Weaver". Your comment was in bold was absolutely unnecessary and both demeaning and insulting. Mikkel made an assumption, which unfortunately was all too easy to discredit and unlike some other users I don't make assumptions. I am pleased that Enry found the BFI site, and I consider them to authoritative, much more so than anything else I have seen which links directly or indirectly straight back to the same datasource. The AFI and the Academy I would also consider to be authoritative. When I look at at the sources to whicjh you refer, it is obvious either by linking or simply by copying the data what the origin was, like the .de site. I don't want assumptions in the database, I want to be as close as we can humanly be to correct. Assumptions lead to errors. BTW on the strength of the BFI information I have changed my vote to Yes, assuming Mikkel will add it to his notes, if he doesn't i will have to return my vote to No simply based on th research he hgas supplied. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Your comment was in bold was absolutely unnecessary and both demeaning and insulting. That's what you consider "demeaning and insulting"? Let me ask you this: can we judge your posts by those same standards? I just meant to indicate that some users often demand a level of proof that simply doesn't exist. Once again: in thousands of cases there simply is no absolute proof. You need to understand that if we're striving to correctly link these kind of name variants (in this case: typo's) together, you're going to need to be able to accept that sometimes "very likely" is the best we can do. Again, I'm happy that you will accept BFI as an "authoritative" source - I'll be sure to make use of that. But personally, I don't think it's up to you to judge various sources and to determine which ones are "authoritative" and which aren't. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
BTW on the strength of the BFI information I have changed my vote to Yes, assuming Mikkel will add it to his notes, if he doesn't i will have to return my vote to No simply based on th research he hgas supplied.
Skip You now know that the contribution is correct and yet you would still change your vote to "no"?  What's more important? Getting the main db correct or you being satisfied with the links provided in the contribution notes? | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim:
People do judge that all the time, I am simply applying the same standards to you. I am not saying I think its right, but if I am going to beheld up on that kind of basis, so will you and everybody else.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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