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Contributing to Profiles of DVD's you Don't Own
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrailroaded
Registered: December 16, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 926
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Quoting dee1959jay:
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Just for the record: I did NOT say - "essentially" or in any other form - that we shouldn't have rules. Neither did I advocate users doing "whatever they damn well please". I believe that what I said was 100% in compliance with Ken's statements in this thread - I even quoted him.

What I said was that while users making contributions in agreement with Ken's stance on this may still not meet your personal standards for your local database (which I reckon to be something along the lines of "nothing gets into my database which I don't consider to be 100% perfect"), they may well help the overall quality of the (Invelos) database. I reckon you don't see a lot of profiles from smaller localities, but believe me, you don't want to know what state they're in sometimes. Such profiles would clearly benefit by carefully contributing in agreement with Ken's statements.


edit
 Last edited: by railroaded
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 6,018
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I understand what you're trying to say, but the Overview is a bad example, as it is likely to vary across releases and certainly localities.

Edit: although there ARE cases in which I did copy the Overview from one locality to another myself. But those were Chinese releases with an overview in Chinese characters only. And I was VERY clear in my contribution notes on where I got the text from (UPC and all) and why I felt I had to contribute this way (i.e. DVDP's inability to handle Chinese characters).

All these contributions (16 so far, still 8 to go) were approved so far.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpaceFreakMicha
Jesus-Freak
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Germany Posts: 1,774
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Edit: although there ARE cases in which I did copy the Overview from one locality to another myself. But those were Chinese releases with an overview in Chinese characters only. And I was VERY clear in my contribution notes on where I got the text from (UPC and all) and why I felt I had to contribute this way (i.e. DVDP's inability to handle Chinese characters).

All these contributions (16 so far, still 8 to go) were approved so far.


Yes, sometimes it is inevitable. Just received "Ong-Bak 2" from ethaicd.com and the complete overview is in thai --> uncontributable.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
About as much chance as Tim Stavro Blofeld will stop making changes to titles he doesn't own

You'll find that if I'm going to make any new contributions to profiles (never titles, of course, only profiles) I don't own, I will follow Ken's updated stance on this, repeated below, to the letter. Now only if you'd do the same, hm? "To allow the voters who actually own the submitted locality to make the call", that is? At the very least let it be very clear that I will indeed be following Ken's instructions, while it's you who has once again decided that anything you don't like, doesn't apply to you.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source.

As long as you also follow his original post, which was not rescinded by his follow up posts, you will be golden.  If, however, you contribute to profiles that don't have blank or limited cast info, you aren't.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Not everyone may have the exact same definition of what "limited" constitutes - you of all people (no offense) should know how everyone here loves to "interpret" just about anything to the point of... well, never mind. Anyway, all this theoretical talk is rather pointless - let's deal with it when it actually happens, okay? I'd say if someone is actually contributing to one of your profiles, and it's not an improvement, you just vote against it. There's no need to make things any more difficult than that.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting T!M:
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Not everyone may have the exact same definition of what "limited" constitutes - you of all people should know how everyone here loves to "interpret" just about anything to the point of... well, never mind.

True, but a profile that has full cast and crew, but one or two erroes, can't be considered 'limited' by any definition.  Neither can a profile that is missing only 3.5 crew.  Anybody that tries to claim otherwise is just playing games to justify doing whatever they want. 

Quote:
Anyway, all this theoretical talk is rather pointless - let's deal with it when it actually happens, okay? I'd say if someone is actually contributing to one of your profiles, and it's not an improvement, you just vote against it. There's no need to make things any more difficult than that.

It doesn't matter whether or not it is an improvement.  If I don't want data from another locality, I can simply vote 'no' on that basis alone.  That's what 'letting the voters make the call' means.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 8,736
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Anybody that tries to claim otherwise is just playing games to justify doing whatever they want. 

I've thought the same thing myself on several recent occasions... 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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What about a profile with clearly IMDb-mined data? For that I would gladly accept a fully audited cast and crew from another locality, and risk the off-chance that credits vary across localities. With IMDb the chance that the credits are wrong is WAY higher...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 8,736
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Quoting dee1959jay:
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What about a profile with clearly IMDb-mined data? For that I would gladly accept a fully audited cast and crew from another locality, and risk the off-chance that credits vary across localities. With IMDb the chance that the credits are wrong is WAY higher...

Indeed. James addressed these, and similar valid points, all right here, a post which he ended by proposing the exact approach to this that was adopted by Ken a few posts later, stating: "If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source." Again, let's stop talking theory, and let the voters and the screeners deal with it if/when it actually happens. I for one don't think there's any problem whatsoever, so there's no reason to keep arguing about it.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
What about a profile with clearly IMDb-mined data? For that I would gladly accept a fully audited cast and crew from another locality, and risk the off-chance that credits vary across localities. With IMDb the chance that the credits are wrong is WAY higher...

I can only go by what Ken said, and he said 'blank or limited'.  IMDb-mined data, for me at least, doesn't fall into that category.  Your mileage may vary but, for me, none of his other posts contradicted or rescinded that statement. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
What about a profile with clearly IMDb-mined data? For that I would gladly accept a fully audited cast and crew from another locality, and risk the off-chance that credits vary across localities. With IMDb the chance that the credits are wrong is WAY higher...

Indeed. James addressed these, and similar valid points, all right here, a post which he ended by proposing the exact approach to this that was adopted by Ken a few posts later, stating: "If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source." Again, let's stop talking theory, and let the voters and the screeners deal with it if/when it actually happens. I for one don't think there's any problem whatsoever, so there's no reason to keep arguing about it.

My personal take on it is that Ken's first comment (re: "limited or blank cast") was an example whereas his follow up comment (which T!M quoted above) is the guideline to follow. Updating a profile that is "complete" with IMDb-mined data seems fine to me as long as the guideline is followed.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 8,736
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Quoting Unicus69:
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IMDb-mined data, for me at least, doesn't fall into that catagory.  Your mileage, as always, will vary. 

It does indeed - I'm with James on this. I'll be interested to see the number of users voting to keep the IMDb-mined data in spite of a fully-audited, as credited set of data. My previously expressed belief that this is all theoretical nonsense is getting stronger by the minute. Again, I suggest we'll see how it turns out if/when it actually happens. In the meantime, I'll bathe in a warm, fuzzy feeling of confidence, okay? 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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You might want to go out and actually enjoy the nice sunny weather we're having, T!M! 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Returning to IMDb-mined data: I'd say: state in your contribution notes that the reason you're contributing is that the existing cast and crew is IMDb-mined and that that's the reason you're attempting to contribute. And then let the screeners decide.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
IMDb-mined data, for me at least, doesn't fall into that catagory.  Your mileage, as always, will vary. 

It does indeed - I'm with James on this. I'll be interested to see the number of users voting to keep the IMDb-mined data in spite of a fully-audited, as credited set of data. My previously expressed belief that this is all theoretical nonsense is getting stronger by the minute. Again, I suggest we'll see how it turns out if/when it actually happens. In the meantime, I'll bathe in a warm, fuzzy feeling of confidence, okay? 

I wish I could say that I was surprised, but I am not...then again, I don't believe I am the keeper of the entire db. 

That being said, I may start contributing to profiles that are blank.  I mean, it really doesn't cause me any extra work as I have already done the audit...PLUS, it could have the added benefit of giving me a respectable contribution number. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,736
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Quoting Unicus69:
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I wish I could say that I was surprised, but I am not...

Me neither, I'm afraid.

Quote:
then again, I don't believe I am the keeper of the entire db. 

Me neither. edit
 Last edited: by Forum Moderator
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