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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 ...18  Previous   Next
Contributing to Profiles of DVD's you Don't Own
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
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Changes have been contributed to a profile of a DVD i own (the changes are 100% correct) but i have my doubts that the contributor actually owns the DVD, i downloaded all the profiles for this film in the database and found that this person has contributed changes to almost all of them, i do understand where the person is coming from they just want to correct the database but I'm not sure this is within the spirit of Profiler (changing and correcting the DVDs you own) so i just want to get the community's opinion on this can changes be made to all Profiles for films you own or only to the Profiles of the DVDs you own.

This is not an attack against the person doing this I'm sure they just have the best interest of the database and the profiler community at heart and if the community are happy with this then i am quite willing to contribute changes to other Profiles myself as this will help to correct the CLT results for common names.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRogue.9
Registered: October 13, 2008
Australia Posts: 260
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I have done this a few times myself after I have found that cast & crew from a film have been entirely copied from IMDB or left blank. I don't have a problem with people who own a film correcting multiple profiles as I think this is the only way the database will be cleaned up and 1 person doing it will save  other users a lot of work.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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All of your choices say essentially the same thing.

As I have said before, however, after a brief period of personal expeerimentation with this over a year ago. It was quickly discovered that while it is perfectly a rational conclusion to  believe that a given film has one credit list and it is presented in that form everywhere; the reality is quite another matter entirely. My intial experimentation indicated that at least 99% this conclusion would in all likelihood correct, there is at least 1% where there may not only be different credit lists for a given film but different lists even from one DVD release to the next. Granted these are RARE, but they DO happen and after reaching that conclusiobn i quickly terminated the experiment, though someone else is actively pursuing it, and i would argue that he is helping the Communiy the vast majority of the time, there are some errors which he will introduce into the system and those errors far outweigh any good which he may be doing.


In short I would say to one and all, don't do this, the errors that you introduce will take far longer to locate and fix. Assumption is ALWAYS a bad thing, and i will not do that, nor will I accept it.
Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,242
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How can anybody verify the contents (regardless of what contents) without the actual DVD. Case in point "Cars" one on the characters voices in the film is a totally different actor for the UK side of the pond compared to the US side.

So any member blantantly changing details of DVD's they don't actually own should be called out, and have their contribution rights suspended or even withdrawn.

Steve
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,884
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Gerri has posted about this before. She came out against it in general...

Quoting Gerri:
Quote:
In general we don't recommend submitting cast and crew for DVDs that you don't own because there can be discrepancies between localities, editions, and cuts (for example) and it can be difficult to validate without actually owning the DVD.

-Gerri


So I would take that as only update the actual DVD you own.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributoroleops
Registered: March 19, 2007
Norway Posts: 700
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I did't partisipated in this vote but I have something to share...

I have been using some time investigating an Czech actor called Jaroslav Vízner.
I dont want to get into the everlasting discussion about the use of í vs i but as those two letters are not equal in the database the person Vízner and Visner becomes two different persons.

When adding actors to a profile with my keybord I would easily just punch in the Vizner and the crew tool gives me only one actor to choose from, the Vízner actor is now not even accessable, (this I hope that Ken could change and maybe everybody should have an master base downloaded from Invelso from time to time with all actors in base so that sloppy punch errors also could have been avoided)

For all profiles that I own I have now changed this name so it can be searchable over borders...
But this would only change the CLT count by tiny persentage, I think that to realy make some changes I have to change the profiles for other countries of this title also. (for the record: something I have not done but I must say it is tempting)

I cant realy se how this could backfire as in all my profiles the endcredits are in Capital letters and the only way it could be credited othervise is if they have changed this in the credits for other country wich is not very likely is it (the only problem in this would also be that i becomes an í) ,  so VIZNER and VÍZNER becomes Vízner and nothing else.


My point is that not everything is Black and White and common sence could be used (please dont smack down on common sence as you belive you are the only sencible person  )
If the contributor states all his investigation in the contribution notes and the voters agree I realy dont see the harm...
We are all at the same age, only at different time...
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkarstenp
Registered: April 2, 2007
Norway Posts: 156
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Quoting oleops:
Quote:
...My point is that not everything is Black and White and common sence could be used ...If the contributor states all his investigation in the contribution notes and the voters agree I realy dont see the harm...


Agreed, Oleops!

Eg. to the OT: We have a pinned thread: "List of Accepted Birth Years with Documentation"
Some contributors have taken the effort of correcting more than his/hers locality, after discovering a new "accepted BY", and I appreciate this effort, regardless of his/her ownership of the actual DVD.
This is also a way to secure that CLT shows most accurate data.
Karsten
 Last edited: by karstenp
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
All of your choices say essentially the same thing.

Sorry could not think of any other way of putting it, I'll try to explain
If you owned a particular film on DVD say for arguments sake "Serpico"
Option 1 would mean you could change all Profiles for this film in the database for everything Sound/Aspect ratio/Features
Option 2 would mean you could change all Profiles for this film in the database for Cast/Crew only
Option 3 would mean you should only make changes to the Profile for that particular DVD you own

have to admit i thought option 2 would get more support as i think this would make more corrections to common names than it would add errors but as Skip says there are the odd occasion were DVDs credits differ i have three different versions of The Fifth Element and one of them does have slightly different credits to the others.
 Last edited: by ninehours
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
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Quoting karstenp:
Quote:
to the OT: We have a pinned thread: "List of Accepted Birth Years with Documentation"

And if you check that thread you will find i have contributed to it, it is a very valuable community resource 
 Last edited: by ninehours
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting oleops:
Quote:
I did't partisipated in this vote but I have something to share...

I have been using some time investigating an Czech actor called Jaroslav Vízner.
I dont want to get into the everlasting discussion about the use of í vs i but as those two letters are not equal in the database the person Vízner and Visner becomes two different persons.

When adding actors to a profile with my keybord I would easily just punch in the Vizner and the crew tool gives me only one actor to choose from, the Vízner actor is now not even accessable, (this I hope that Ken could change and maybe everybody should have an master base downloaded from Invelso from time to time with all actors in base so that sloppy punch errors also could have been avoided)

For all profiles that I own I have now changed this name so it can be searchable over borders...
But this would only change the CLT count by tiny persentage, I think that to realy make some changes I have to change the profiles for other countries of this title also. (for the record: something I have not done but I must say it is tempting)

I cant realy se how this could backfire as in all my profiles the endcredits are in Capital letters and the only way it could be credited othervise is if they have changed this in the credits for other country wich is not very likely is it (the only problem in this would also be that i becomes an í) ,  so VIZNER and VÍZNER becomes Vízner and nothing else.


My point is that not everything is Black and White and common sence could be used (please dont smack down on common sence as you belive you are the only sencible person  )
If the contributor states all his investigation in the contribution notes and the voters agree I realy dont see the harm...

VÍZNER is nit Visner IF he is not credited that way On Screen, it's the data  and your version of common sense has nothing to do with it. This why we have a linking system, If the credit reads Vizner that is what you enter PERIOD, if you can document that Visner=VÍZNER=Vizner or whateber provide the documentation to back it up and use the common Name.

The harm comes when you don't follow the Rules, and start operating on your own following whatever you believe is correct instead of the data. That affects the data that everyone is trying to use and all it takes is one bad user with a large collection to muck things up for the rest of the Community.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributoroleops
Registered: March 19, 2007
Norway Posts: 700
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
VÍZNER is nit Visner IF he is not credited that way On Screen, it's the data  and your version of common sense has nothing to do with it. This why we have a linking system, If the credit reads Vizner that is what you enter PERIOD, if you can document that Visner=VÍZNER=Vizner or whateber provide the documentation to back it up and use the common Name.

The harm comes when you don't follow the Rules, and start operating on your own following whatever you believe is correct instead of the data. That affects the data that everyone is trying to use and all it takes is one bad user with a large collection to muck things up for the rest of the Community.

Skip


Please read what I say.

I said that in all my profiles he was credited all in capitals (not Visner or Vízner or anything else.)
I said "VIZNER and VÍZNER becomes Vízner and nothing else"

I am following the rules and have also tried to tell you this in my post here, its there to read.
I am not encuraging anyone to break the rules, I simply state that in some cases the rules can be followed and you can change profiles of DVD's you don't own without doing any damage and has given an example.
(and NO I am not saying that everybody can do what ever they feel like)

And at the end it was a profile that you also have lurked into that brougth up my attension to VISNER beeing Vízner and not Visner (Visner vould have folloved the US capitilazation rule)
And I have done a proper investigation to be shure myself, before I did the correction to all my other profiles (and NO I have not lurked into other profiles)
We are all at the same age, only at different time...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,548
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:


As I have said before, however, after a brief period of personal expeerimentation with this over a year ago. It was quickly discovered that while it is perfectly a rational conclusion to  believe that a given film has one credit list and it is presented in that form everywhere; the reality is quite another matter entirely. My intial experimentation indicated that at least 99% this conclusion would in all likelihood correct, there is at least 1% where there may not only be different credit lists for a given film but different lists even from one DVD release to the next. Granted these are RARE, but they DO happen and after reaching that conclusiobn i quickly terminated the experiment, though someone else is actively pursuing it, and i would argue that he is helping the Communiy the vast majority of the time, there are some errors which he will introduce into the system and those errors far outweigh any good which he may be doing.




I've been tempted to do this recently myself, but recall an old thread showing different cast credits in thee same film from different regions, which has stopped me. So far I've only done multiple profiles if I own multiple copies of the same film (They Live, Prince of Darkness, Return of the Living Dead 3, etc.), and even then have double checked the credits on each after copying the cast and crew profile from the one I did first.

What about those threads where everyone chips in (checks some credits) to find the common name? Should we start asking for the region and UPC of what disc is checked since some may vary, or go with the 99% odds?
That's the only thing keeping me from saying that once all titles/names are confirmed, everything should be edited in the master database to reflect those and establish the common name from there on out. Especially true for sound crew, who often have at least 3 variations of their name from movie to movie.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
on steroids
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 5,734
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Quoting Rogue.9:
Quote:
I have done this a few times myself after I have found that cast & crew from a film have been entirely copied from IMDB or left blank. I don't have a problem with people who own a film correcting multiple profiles as I think this is the only way the database will be cleaned up and 1 person doing it will save  other users a lot of work.

... if the profiles are being corrected at all.

If about 99% of the releases correspond in data related to the movie itsself (Production Year, CoO, Studios, Credits, Genres) then the contribution for multiple profiles should be allowed.

The contributor should point out that he doesn't own the specific release, though, to arouse some extra attention of the voters.

In my opinion the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

Love, bbbbb
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGemini76
Registered: May 18, 2007
Norway Posts: 232
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I've done this multiple times, and I can see why you don't feel confident in having it this way. But the reason I do it, is simply because a rommate owns them, and this person is not sure how to contribute. This person also don't writeread english very well and is a dyslectic. So I add the films to my local db or import the other persons local db, edit the profile and contribute. So I actually do have the DVD, but I haven't added it to my online collection.

So I really think it should be enough to have the DVD, etc. I don't see why you actually have to own it.
 Last edited: by Gemini76
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
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Quoting Gemini76:
Quote:
I've done this multiple times, and I can see why you don't feel confident in having it this way. But the reason I do it, is simply because a rommate owns them, and this person is not sure how to contribute. This person also don't writeread english very well and is a dyslectic. So I add the films to my local db or import the other persons local db, edit the profile and contribute. So I actually do have the DVD, but I haven't added it to my online collection.

So I really think it should be enough to have the DVD, etc. I don't see why you actually have to own it.


I think in your case it's OK because you have the actual DVD there which you can use as reference. What I think ninehours is referring to is having one copy of the film only & then updating all other versions in the database but not actually having that release. As stated by Snarbo, a good reason not to do this is the Pixar title "Cars". While the US release has one actor voicing a role, here in the UK the same part was recorded by Jeremy Clarkson.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGemini76
Registered: May 18, 2007
Norway Posts: 232
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I see, Forget, and I totally agree. I can't say I like this.
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