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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi common name |
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| Berak | Bibamus morieundum est! |
Registered: May 10, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote: It's down to the poorly entered data. Once you filter them down to what they should be entered as "Kan" only has two distinct titles - AvP: Requiem & Monkeybone, all others are only variants of those two titles. On the other hand Kan has 4 titles, again once you filter out those that SHOULD be linked together. Since when do we filter CLT-results?! | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away! True love conquers all! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote: Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote: It's down to the poorly entered data. Once you filter them down to what they should be entered as "Kan" only has two distinct titles - AvP: Requiem & Monkeybone, all others are only variants of those two titles. On the other hand Kan has 4 titles, again once you filter out those that SHOULD be linked together.
Since when do we filter CLT-results?! Ditto that. I have no idea where that comes from. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote: Quoting Woola:
Quote: ...
Alos the Rukles do not tell us to make the kind of adjustments that Kluge is trying to make or that Forget is supporting, they simply say to use the CLT results, which he has not done. If adjustments need to be made in the future as other copies are properly verified, then that can easily be done, but no assumptions. When you assume something you make an Ass of U and Me.
Skip Skip/DP/Jubal/Woola,
You are missing what Kluge is saying; The "17" Titles are just "2", 4 ways to write "Monkeybone" and 13 ways to write "Aliens VS Predator 2". This leads to the other entry which was 6 titles.
pdf That's not how the CLT works, Paul. We are given results, thats' it. I have seen anything that says to boil down the results or reach assumptions abiout the results. The results are the RESULTS and they aARE the answer, not some arcane invention. If we are going top do that,then we don't needa CLT or any other kind of linking system. Just let users create whatever llinjk they want, based on whatever data they want, then we can all watch as users battle for whose linking will be the linking and whio gets their name in lights this week. Pleas, Paul, we've have been down that road, I, for one, am not interested in any sort of user-invention as iot pertains to data and I don't care who it is. I have watched users battle over all kinds of things to get their name and THEIR data up in lights. I havve watched as users ping-pong titles back adn forth on a weekly basis, one title in oparticular Ken advised us had edited and re-edited 900 times in 5 YEARS, give me a break. I used to watch as users would force their particcular sorting style on everyone else and then watch when somebody said Where's Thunderball?; because some idiot had changed it to James Bond 04. I watched as users said that we didn't have Rules, wehad GUIDELINES (that is what they were called), and they would say They are Guidelines and we don't HAVE to follow Guidelines. So I am sorry, Paul...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely absurd. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote: Since when do we filter CLT-results?! Since the minute the CLT was introduced. We see it literally every single day: every common name finding-thread is essentially "filtering the CLT results". The CLT is a nice tool, but we really can't take the numbers on face value - you really need to work with them to get proper results. Ken knows that, too: Quoting Ken Cole: Quote: The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted [...] if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Of course not everybody feels like doing the extra work, but that's no reason to bash those that ARE willing to put the extra time in. So what Kluge is doing is absolutely correct, and very welcome. |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kluge: Quote: So the common name should be Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi, or am I wrong? You're absolutely right! There's no reason to keep propagating an incorrect common name just because a bunch of profiles are missing the original title. Let me try and "visualize" what Kluge is saying - here's the first page of the CLT results for little-used name variant Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi: Now: these are NOT fourteen different films (the remaining three "title" variants are on the next page): clearly it's just one. It's just that not all profiles have the original title filled in, or have it formatted differently (for instance: with a hyphen instead of a semi-colon), causing the CLT to count them as separate titles. That's a known issue, something you need to factor in whenever you're looking at CLT numbers, but once again: this page of results is certainly NOT declaring the man to be appearing in fourteen different films. It's just one. Insisting this little-used name variant to be the common name when there's a name variant that he's obviously credited as far more often, is utter madness. This is exactly what Ken meant when he said that "errors in the database can and should be considered." That is what Kluge was doing, and he's 100% right. Based on what I've seen from him over the past months, Kluge is doing an absolutely sterling job with regards to determining common names. It's really worrying to see his absolutely correct, rules-compliant findings to be dismissed by some users who hardly seem to grasp the common name concept or the workings of the CLT at all... | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Berak | Bibamus morieundum est! |
Registered: May 10, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: This is exactly what Ken meant when he said that "errors in the database can and should be considered."
It's really worrying to see his absolutely correct, rules-compliant findings to be dismissed by some users who hardly seem to grasp the common name concept or the workings of the CLT at all... Why am I not surprised by this comment T!M? You got a psychic link to Ken as always I see (bold by me). You want it both ways, as long as it fits your standards. I'll let you play your game, but refuse to participate. I've expressed my opinion and interpretation, and consider the issue closed. Peace out... | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away! True love conquers all! | | | Last edited: by Berak |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote: You want it both ways Wrong again: I just want it correct. And that's really very simple: this guy is credited in 6 titles as Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi, and in only 2 titles as Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi. Per Ken's specific instructions, the common name is the name variant under which the person is credited in the highest number of titles. So that's Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi. That's all. You can blow smoke all you want, but that's the bottom line. It's correct per the rules, per Ken, per common sense... There's just no upside in propagating an obviously incorrect common name. Once again: Kluge is 100% correct, and I for one am very grateful for his efforts. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: This is exactly what Ken meant when he said that "errors in the database can and should be considered."
It's really worrying to see his absolutely correct, rules-compliant findings to be dismissed by some users who hardly seem to grasp the common name concept or the workings of the CLT at all...
Why am I not surprised by this comment T!M? You got a psychic link to Ken as always I see (bold by me).
You want it both ways, as long as it fits your standards. I'll let you play your game, but refuse to participate. I've expressed my opinion and interpretation, and consider the issue closed.
Peace out... You are absolutely correct, Berak. Tim seems to believe that he runs Profiler these days, including the ability to rampage through the database and cause all sorts of undocumented damage. Tim you NEED to focus vbery clearly on properly documenting your work, and stop with the Contributions that you expect to be accepted simply based upon your say so. Ken, I have asked that you reverse what you have previously stated since this single user has caused more damage in the last 6 months because ge is both lazy and arrogant. If a user refuse to reveal his research results, while claiming he has done "extensive research", such Contributions should summarily DECLINED as they do not serve the database. Users should also not be allowed to modify the database simply based on an undocumeneted ASSUMPTION. Please Ken stop this sort of damage, we are not being served well by this arrogance. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | So... I gather you're still having lots of trouble with admitting you were wrong, then? |
| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,665 |
| Posted: | | | | Each of the "Common Name" threads in this forum are an attempt to take flawed [due to wrong name used, wrong/missing original titles skewing the title count, etc.] CLT results and determine what they actually mean.
By putting them here in the forums the threads:
1) Highlight questionable CLT names 2) Encourage anyone reading to provide confirmation of correct/incorrect names 2a) By doing it in the light of day erroneous confirmations can quickly be caught by other users 3) Hopefully show what the common name would be if the CLT results were corrected
Any confirmation i've ever submitted to one of these is the result of verifying the on-screen credit. Were i to do otherwise i could easily be called on it by someone who had actually reviewed the on-screen credit. | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: So... I gather you're still having lots of trouble with admitting you were wrong, then? No I have a problem your arrogance and your utter failure to document your work and reaching ASSUMPTIONS. Tim< I do look forward to the day my titles come out of storage, because I KNOW the damage you are doing and when I can document it, I will point straight at the source of the damage...YOU. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Each of the "Common Name" threads in this forum are an attempt to take flawed [due to wrong name used, wrong/missing original titles skewing the title count, etc.] CLT results and determine what they actually mean. Exactly! And as of yet, nobody disagrees with Kluge's findings that there are 6 titles Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi titles in the database, and only 2 Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi titles. If new information comes to light, I'll happily change the common name I'm using. But as of yet, based on the information we have, it's Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote: I do look forward to the day my titles come out of storage, because I KNOW the damage you are doing and when I can document it, I will point straight at the source of the damage...YOU. You keep saying that: I can hardly contain my excitement... In the meantime, would you like me to start threads about each and every of the horrendous errors you're trying to introduce into the database on a daily basis? Really: from what I've seen, the main "source of the damage" around here is you, and I'm perfectly happy to back that up in minute detail. Oh, and congratulations on derailing yet another thread, by the way. Realizing you were wrong, and obviously having nothing constructive to add, you decided to turn it into unrelated and unfounded mudslinging again, as usual. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | That would be correct Tweeter, if that is what Kluge were doing. Instead he is trying to do this AFTER THE FACT not before.
Instead we have people like Tim, who just assume that he can make global changes based only on a single copy which he owns, despite the FACT that we know that this is a BAD assumption (as most assumptions are) and that he is creating errorsd in the database by setting HIS collection as a gold standard. It is a DOCUMENTED FACT that Cast and Crew data can and does vary across Regions, Localities and Versions a film. I see Tim introducing such errors based on his ASSUMPTION and the day will come when I will graphically point out every such error he has introduced into the system. I will only say at this point, since thus far he hasn't picked on one of the few titles that I still have here in the house, based upon what I am seeing the problem he is introducing is not insignificant. But I also recognize that it is possible that my data has been corrupted along the way, so until I can visually re-verify my data, I will not address specifics...but when I can...I will.
Tim wants to create a working CLT and will do anything to achieve that end, regardless of his being correct. I think Tim means well, but he is absolutely mis-guided. I repeat, that when I ran my experiment that used Tim's assumption, and i specifically requested the Community to help in verifying the assumptions, it took less than ONE week to find the flaw, and I at that point chose to discontinue the experiment rather than introduce errors to the system. Tim has NEVER called upon the Community to check their copies, the ones that he does NOT own, not even ONE time has he done this. He assumes and he is WRONG and always has been, and i have no tolerance for his actions..ZERO.
Ken has made some comments that Tim misinterprets and selectively quotes to support his position. Though I will admit that ken has made some comment which dumb down the database and take us dangerously down the same road that has been traveled by others already and they have created a mess. Tim I think you would be much better served and the database as well if you would go stick your finger in the dike. I am offended by your arrogance and your utter failure to document your work, an attitude which you display every time you fail to reveal the CLT results or that you CLAIM to have done "extensive research" but refuse to include the results of that research...dare i say it, Tim...I think you are less than honest everytime you do that, or put another way you mislead the Community each and everytime you in essence say "It is because you say it i." and you insult my intelligence by expecting me or any other to BUY that crap.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | No Tim, the person derailing this thread was YOU with your pompous attitude. You came here and weighed in your opinion as if it were the most important opinion in the world. And there are those of us which are vehemently opposed to what you are doing, the hijacking was done by YOU. You don't work Invelos, you don't rep[resent Invelos, but you pretend to all to often. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting Berak:
Quote: You want it both ways Wrong again: I just want it correct. And that's really very simple: this guy is credited in 6 titles as Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi, and in only 2 titles as Hiroshi "Kan" Ikeuchi. Per Ken's specific instructions, the common name is the name variant under which the person is credited in the highest number of titles. So that's Hiroshi Kan Ikeuchi. That's all. You can blow smoke all you want, but that's the bottom line. It's correct per the rules, per Ken, per common sense... There's just no upside in propagating an obviously incorrect common name. Once again: Kluge is 100% correct, and I for one am very grateful for his efforts. BTW no, Tim you don't want it correct, if you did you would not be behaving asyou do. You want it YOUR version of correct and you don't care about real data. It has been proven that your assumptions are wrong, but you rampage on like a bull in a china shop. As long as you continue with fiction-based assumptions, then I will not support you. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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