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Finnish ratings
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorPistol Pete
Registered: March 19, 2007
Finland Posts: 259
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Quoting Jykke:
Quote:
I was just wondering... if we have these new unclassified ratings implemented in DVDP, should we split the rating systems in three:
- Uudet ikärajat, tarkastetut = 3, 7, 11, 13, 15, 18
- Uudet ikärajat, tarkastamattomat = [3], [7], [11], [15], [18]
- Vanhat ikärajat = S/T, S/T 6, S/T 8, S/T 10, S/T 12, S/T 14, K/F 16

That way it would be easier to choose the correct rating. Without splitting the list of ratings becomes quite long. I'd still prefer the square brackets with the unclassified ratings since they visually differentiate unclassified ratings from the classified.

Please state your opinions, I can then pm Ken and ask him to have a look in this thread.


+1
Markku
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorJykke
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 413
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New Finnish ratings are available. First check however shows that some of the ratings need correction. Eg. a rating which was previously [18] (uudet ikärajat) is now 18 (uudet ikärajat, tarkastamattomat). These have to be corrected locally and in the online database. I believe it is the same with [3] rating.

3, 7, 11, 13, 15 and 18 ratings seem to be unaffected. As are "vanhat ikärajat".

I already submitted rating corrections on X-Files, MacGyver, Battlestar Galactica, Columbo, Monty Python. When making profile corrections, please check all 3 and 18 ratings and if needed move them to the new unclassified rating category.

PS. New ratings become available in DVDP when you update the online profile list.
 Last edited: by Jykke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJaLe
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 115
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Time for new ratings discussion. 1.1.2012 new ratings system in Finland goes live.

http://vet.fi/MEKU/OHJE_TARJOAJA_TALLENTEINA.pdf

Should we discuss this in finnish? Well...

Now we have NR and Adult as "forced" in both ends and local ones:
Uudet ikärajat, tarkastetut = 3, 7, 11, 13, 15, 18

1.1.2012 we will have => S, 7, 12, 16, 18

S = Sallittu kaikenikäisille
7 = Ei alle 7-vuotiaille
12 = Ei alle 12-vuotiaille
16 = Ei alle 16-vuotiaille
18 = Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta

[18] = Luokittelematon, Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta

How we should label this new set of ratings? "Siis aivan uusimmat ikärajat" 

This is now 4th set of ratings in Finland, can these be added to DVDProfiler? Or was the amount limited.
 Last edited: by JaLe
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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In my opinion:

- "Vanhat ikärajat" stays the same
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastetut" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastetut"
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastamattomat" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastamattomat"
- New Ratings 1.1.2012... -->

"Ikärajat 2012":

S = Sallittu (Sallittu kaikenikäisille)
T = Tillåten (Sallittu kaikenikäisille)
7 = Ei alle 7-vuotiaille
12 = Ei alle 12-vuotiaille
16 = Ei alle 16-vuotiaille
18 = Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta
[18] = Luokittelematon, Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta
NR =Luokittelematon

As far as I know Ken can do this change without releasing a new version of the program. I don't believe there are any limits how many sets of ratings we can have. If I remember correctly they are just listed as text in some file, which name I cannot remember just at the moment. I'm not sure, but I believe that we cannot get rid of "Adult", even we don't have such rating in Finland. Program limitation I guess...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJaLe
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 115
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
In my opinion:

- "Vanhat ikärajat" stays the same
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastetut" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastetut"
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastamattomat" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastamattomat"
- New Ratings 1.1.2012... --> "Ikärajat 2012"

Alternative suggestion to get matched titles:
- "Vanhat ikärajat" to "Ikärajat 2000 ja ennen tarkastetut"
- New Ratings 1.1.2012... --> "Ikärajat 2012 ja jälkeen luokitellut"


Quoting Kulju:
Quote:

S = Sallittu (Sallittu kaikenikäisille)
T = Tillåten (Sallittu kaikenikäisille)
7 = Ei alle 7-vuotiaille
12 = Ei alle 12-vuotiaille
16 = Ei alle 16-vuotiaille
18 = Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta
[18] = Luokittelematon, Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta
NR = Luokittelematon

I didn't find any info how that "T" will be used, if at all. I only find some rating image files for it.
Not sure does we really need separete entry for it.
I have a feeling that there will not be any releases where is only "T" symbol. Only "S" or both is likely scenerio.
So my suggestion is that we use only "S" or combined symbol "S/T" just like in the good old days, even it ain't exactly official. Entry would be then "S/T = Sallittu kaikenikäisille"


Quoting Kulju:
Quote:

As far as I know Ken can do this change without releasing a new version of the program. I don't believe there are any limits how many sets of ratings we can have. If I remember correctly they are just listed as text in some file, which name I cannot remember just at the moment. I'm not sure, but I believe that we cannot get rid of "Adult", even we don't have such rating in Finland. Program limitation I guess...

Yes, now I remember this also. It is simple update with database update.
"Aduld" is mandatory, even useless, field in Finland. But I think that "NR" is also mandatory.
If "NR" field can be used for localized ratings then we can use it for "[18] = Luokittelematon, Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta" because that is not rated in Finland.

Do we need more opinions from other finnish members or are we making decision by ourselves? 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting JaLe:
Quote:

Alternative suggestion to get matched titles:
- "Vanhat ikärajat" to "Ikärajat 2000 ja ennen tarkastetut"

Maybe "Ikärajat ennen vuotta 2001", it's a bit better finnish.
Quote:

- New Ratings 1.1.2012... --> "Ikärajat 2012 ja jälkeen luokitellut"

"Ikärajat 2012 alkaen", again better language. Im not much after matching the titles since it's almost impossible.
Quote:

I didn't find any info how that "T" will be used, if at all. I only find some rating image files for it.
Not sure does we really need separete entry for it.
I have a feeling that there will not be any releases where is only "T" symbol. Only "S" or both is likely scenerio.
So my suggestion is that we use only "S" or combined symbol "S/T" just like in the good old days, even it ain't exactly official. Entry would be then "S/T = Sallittu kaikenikäisille"

I found it once, but cannot find it again. In my opinion we shouldn't start inventing symbols and explanations for them. If it's T, we use T and if it's S, we use S, no inventing needed. Both are official and CAN be used.

Quote:
But I think that "NR" is also mandatory.

And also needed, see your own link. Paragraph "Ilman luokittelua ja merkintää tarjottava ohjelma"

Quote:
"If "NR" field can be used for localized ratings then we can use it for "[18] = Luokittelematon, Kielletty alle 18-vuotiailta" because that is not rated in Finland.

We can't use that. We need [18] for "Ilman luokittelua tarjottava kuvaohjelma". So we need both, [18] and NR. Previously we didn't have a need for NR, but now we do.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
As far as I know Ken can do this change without releasing a new version of the program. I don't believe there are any limits how many sets of ratings we can have. If I remember correctly they are just listed as text in some file, which name I cannot remember just at the moment.

C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\DVD Profiler\localities.xod
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJaLe
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 115
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I understand that "S" and "T" are different symbols but they point to same rating. Other in finnish and other in swedish.
I can live with both of them, it is not an issue. But I'm just wondering if we add one swedish language rating, should the others have swedish version also?
And in the otherhand, we never had any swedish versions, why add one or more now?

After investigating new website:
http://www.meku.fi/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=280&lang=fi
I found new explanations to ratings. Funny thing is that in finnish those are "Allowed..." and in swedish "Forbidden..." form.

So are we using these groups:

- Rename "Vanhat ikärajat" to "Ikärajat ennen vuotta 2001"
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastetut" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastetut"
- Rename "Uudet ikärajat, tarkastamattomat" to "Ikärajat 2001-2011, tarkastamattomat"
- Add new ratings group "Ikärajat 2012 alkaen"

"Ikärajat 2012 alkaen" group ratings are (if "T" is included):

S = Sallittu kaikenikäisille
T = Tillåtet för alla åldrar
7 = Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille
12 = Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille
16 = Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille
18 = Vain aikuisille
[18] = Luokittelematon, vain aikuisille

Plus hardcoded "NR" and "Adult" ratings.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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I opened a support ticket. Let's see how it goes...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorPistol Pete
Registered: March 19, 2007
Finland Posts: 259
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I'm a bit late here, but want to still express my opinion. I have one disc with a new rating logo:



This means "Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa". As there are 50 new rating logos, IMO we need to have 50 different rating descriptions in order to distinguish all the different 7, 12, 16 and 18 ratings and to make possible to have a correct rating logo pic for each rating in phpDVDprofiler. This would require something like this:

Ikärajat 1.1.2012 alkaen

S Sallittu kaikenikäisille
T Tillåtet för alla åldrar
S/T Sallittu kaikenikäisille/Tillåtet för alla åldrar

7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja seksiä
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja väkivaltaa
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa
7 Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää seksiä

12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja seksiä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja päihteidenkäyttöä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja väkivaltaa
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja päihteidenkäyttöä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää seksiä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja väkivaltaa
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja seksiä
12 Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta

16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja seksiä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja päihteidenkäyttöä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja väkivaltaa
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja päihteidenkäyttöä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää seksiä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja väkivaltaa
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja seksiä
16 Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta

18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja seksiä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää väkivaltaa ja päihteidenkäyttöä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja väkivaltaa
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää seksiä ja päihteidenkäyttöä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää seksiä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja väkivaltaa
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja seksiä
18 Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille: Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä ja voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta
Markku
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Pistol Pete:
Quote:
I'm a bit late here, but want to still express my opinion. I have one disc with a new rating logo:



This means "Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa".


You are mixing ratings with rating details. In this case:

Rating: Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille
Rating Details: Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta, sisältää väkivaltaa

IMHO those two fields should be kept separete as they are at the moment.
Quote:

As there are 50 new rating logos,

No, there are 7 Rating logos.

Quote:
IMO we need to have 50 different rating descriptions


No we don't. There might be 50 different combinations of Rating and Rating Details logos but that's completely another story. In this request we should only worry about Ratings, since they can be implemented by Invelos without program changes. If someone like to have a dropdown menu for new ratings, that requires a program change and should be requested in another ticket.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
I opened a support ticket. Let's see how it goes...

No response yet.   
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
There might be 50 different combinations of Rating and Rating Details logos but that's completely another story.

Actually if we assume these Rating Detail logos are only used with ratings 7,12,16 and 18 and there are 4 different logos and if we want to keep the order of logos in equation too, we end up with
((4*3*2*1)+(4*3*2)+(4*3)+4)*4 = (24+24+12+4)*4 = 64*4 = 256 different combinations, not 50.

I personally don't want to see 256 lines of rating details drop-down menu.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorPistol Pete
Registered: March 19, 2007
Finland Posts: 259
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
There might be 50 different combinations of Rating and Rating Details logos but that's completely another story.

Actually if we assume these Rating Detail logos are only used with ratings 7,12,16 and 18 and there are 4 different logos and if we want to keep the order of logos in equation too, we end up with
((4*3*2*1)+(4*3*2)+(4*3)+4)*4 = (24+24+12+4)*4 = 64*4 = 256 different combinations, not 50.

I personally don't want to see 256 lines of rating details drop-down menu.


I don't know where you got your formula, but it has nothing to do with the actual number of different rating logos, which is 60. Yes, I had a mistake in my post, the actual number is 60, the number of the different variations I listed in my post, not 50 and certainly not 256.

There are 3 logos of "Salittu kaikenikäisille", 9 logos of "Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille" and 16 logos of "Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille", "Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille" and "Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille" (or "Vain aikuisille").

You can find all the different logos here
and explanation of how they are determined here.

If you put the content symbols of the rating logos to rating details, you are not able to have a correct image of the logo.
Markku
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Pistol Pete:
Quote:

I don't know where you got your formula, but it has nothing to do with the actual number of different rating logos, which is 60. Yes, I had a mistake in my post, the actual number is 60, the number of the different variations I listed in my post, not 50 and certainly not 256.


I assumed, since we have four logos for rating details that they all could be used in same release if it contains violence, sexual content, properties causing anxiety and drug use. It feels stupid that two logos per release would be maximum.
Quote:

There are 3 logos of "Salittu kaikenikäisille", 9 logos of "Sallittu yli 7-vuotiaille" and 16 logos of "Sallittu yli 12-vuotiaille", "Sallittu yli 16-vuotiaille" and "Sallittu yli 18-vuotiaille" (or "Vain aikuisille").


They are combinations of Ratings and Rating Details logos. Note that we are only talking about Ratings in this thread.
Quote:

If you put the content symbols of the rating logos to rating details, you are not able to have a correct image of the logo.

Thats true, but the content symbols are Rating Details, they tell you what are the reasons for the given Rating. We shouldn't mix Rating and Rating Details fields just that some third party software would show correct Rating Details logos. Rating Details field should be free text field as it has been. Of course you can open another thread for modification request considering that field.

In my opinion we shouldn't mix apples and oranges here.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorPistol Pete
Registered: March 19, 2007
Finland Posts: 259
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Thats true, but the content symbols are Rating Details, they tell you what are the reasons for the given Rating. We shouldn't mix Rating and Rating Details fields just that some third party software would show correct Rating Details logos. Rating Details field should be free text field as it has been. Of course you can open another thread for modification request considering that field..

Preparation of the legislative proposal of the new Act on Audiovisual Programs clearly states that these symbols are not reasons for the given rating, but further information of the content. The verbal translation of these symbols is always the same: "Sisältää väkivaltaa", "Sisältää seksiä", "Voi aiheuttaa ahdistusta" or "Sisältää päihteidenkäyttöä". Why would we need a free text field for fixed content? Wouldn't it be easier to select this content from a drop-down menu rather than always type it again? The new database is still in beta so it’s not possible to see these new rating decisions yet. But if the reasons for the given rating are written down the same way as earlier, then these reasons should go to the free text field for rating details.
Quote:

In my opinion we shouldn't mix apples and oranges here.

I'm not mixing, IMO. 
Markku
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