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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ...9  Previous   Next
Country of Origin
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 374
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:


Socialism has never worked, ever.  For all its faults, the US is the economic pit bull in the world, and is the strongest militarily, and politically, and its citizens have more freedom than any other country in the history of the world.  And that's ALL due to capitalism.

You can believe that or not as you see fit.  But, I can stand on any corner in the US and say that, but I wouldn't try it in very many other places around the world.  You'd get arrested at least, and maybe even shot out of hand, in far too many places that think WE are the evil in the world.


Rifter please keep your completely irrelevant political views to yourself.

Thank you.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registranttarantino
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 131
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Quoting jgilligan:
Quote:

Continuing to argue over which country should get CoO is pointless until we have clarification from Invelos.


I agree with you.
There's just too many sources and diverging opinions out there.  Plus some people seems to take "Country of Origin" to thier heart and soul.
So we definitely need a clear definition and also a clear understanding of the acceptable sources of information.  Is it the copywright holder? The first production company from the credits? The dvd back cover?  An independent source or video guide?  Roger Ebert?

90% of the movies are easy to tell...  We need rules that will make easy for 100%
 Last edited: by tarantino
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting JonM:
Quote:
So New Line own the rights to the LoTR story (a British story, but don't go there! ) and instigate the process to make the film. In that case, Aardman could have got it and made it in plasticine.


Yes they could have.

Quote:
And did New Line even care if it got made? Just how many ideas do producers have that never happen because the money isn't right? Look how quick they've been to dump Jackson over money. They don't care about artistic integrity. I do and that is what influences how I use CoO, because it's that angle I want to track.


Nice revisionist history...I have been following this quite closely.  New Line didn't dump Jackson, Jackson refused to do anything concerning The Hobbit until he got a larger piece of the LotR pie.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting johnd:
Quote:

How terribly capitalist of you: Reduction of art to an exchange of money.


That is not what I said so quit trying to twist it around.

Quote:
Try to understand before one of us dies: Having money is not a talent. Having money does not create an artistic vision. Having money to buy the rights does not give you artistic integrity. By your estimate, Michael Jackson buying the Beatles catalogue suddenly gave him artistic integrity.


I don't know where you live, but in the real world you have to get money before you have it...and getting money, for the most part, is a talent.  And you are right, having money to buy the rights does not give you artistic integrity.  But, at least in this case, Jackson's artistic integrity wouldn't have been worth a darn if it wasn't for New Line's money.  The money they forked over allowed Jackson to make the film he did.

Quote:
What a strange view of the world you have.


Back at ya. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting johnd:
Quote:

I'm afraid she is. The COO for LotR is New Zealand, not the US. Strange how some people want to claim anything good to be theirs. There are probably Americans who are very unhappy that New Zealand could make such a good set of films.


Are you serious?  I don't care what country makes the film as long as it is good.

Quote:
However, I am quite happy to concede Showgirls, Howard the Duck, Daredevil, and Alien vs. Predator to the US.


Why?  Didn't the makers of those films have an 'artistic vision'?  Or is it only good if you think it is good?   
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
The problem with Gerri's post is that the production company for LoTR (WingNut) is based in New Zealand.
So does Gerri think the production company was based in the US or does she class New Line (the funder/distributor) as the production company?
We need clarification on what Invelos think "production company" means. Is it the company that fund the film, make the film or distribute the film?


People seem to think that New Line isn't a production company because it is a movie studio.  I am not sure why that is so let us define a production company.  From Wikepedia:

Production company refers to a company responsible for the development and physical production of performing arts, film, radio or a television program. The company may also be directly responsible for the raising of funding for the production or may do so through an intermediary. The production company may be a small company, selling its product to a film studio or presenting it at a theatrical venue, or, in the case of film and television, it may be the studio itself.

That is the standard definition of a production company.  Both New Line and WingNut fall into this category.  Because both companies fall into that category we have to decide which one takes priority.

New Line was responsible for the development, raising of funding, presenting it at a theatrical venue and it was the studio itself.  WingNut was responsible for the physical production.  In my book, New Line was responsible for more things and took the bigger risk...that is why they are listed first in the credits.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting Lopek:
Quote:

And here we go again with the "Ain't America Great Folks" irrelevances... please tell us about your military again Rifter, all us backwards foreign types love to hear about that too!   


To be fair, Rifter didn't start the 'pro' or 'anti' conversation.  Another user started out by making, obvious, anti-American statements.  While I don't like political discussion, for this very reason, hanging it all on Rifter is being unfair.  He is simply responding to people pushing his buttons. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
The problem with Gerri's post is that the production company for LoTR (WingNut) is based in New Zealand.
So does Gerri think the production company was based in the US or does she class New Line (the funder/distributor) as the production company?
We need clarification on what Invelos think "production company" means. Is it the company that fund the film, make the film or distribute the film?


People seem to think that New Line isn't a production company because it is a movie studio.  I am not sure why that is so let us define a production company.  From Wikepedia:

Production company refers to a company responsible for the development and physical production of performing arts, film, radio or a television program. The company may also be directly responsible for the raising of funding for the production or may do so through an intermediary. The production company may be a small company, selling its product to a film studio or presenting it at a theatrical venue, or, in the case of film and television, it may be the studio itself.

That is the standard definition of a production company.  Both New Line and WingNut fall into this category.  Because both companies fall into that category we have to decide which one takes priority.

New Line was responsible for the development, raising of funding, presenting it at a theatrical venue and it was the studio itself.  WingNut was responsible for the physical production.  In my book, New Line was responsible for more things and took the bigger risk...that is why they are listed first in the credits.


Not to mention the fact that they also own the rights, and that without them nobody gets to make that particular movie.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Lopek:
Quote:

And here we go again with the "Ain't America Great Folks" irrelevances... please tell us about your military again Rifter, all us backwards foreign types love to hear about that too!   


To be fair, Rifter didn't start the 'pro' or 'anti' conversation.  Another user started out by making, obvious, anti-American statements.  While I don't like political discussion, for this very reason, hanging it all on Rifter is being unfair.  He is simply responding to people pushing his buttons. 


Exactly right, and I respond accordingly every single time because I'm sick and tired of Americans and the US being the whipping boy for every second and third rate outfit (and even some of the first rate) in the world that thinks the world owes it something, and the US is why they ain't got it.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quote:
Quoting JonM:
And did New Line even care if it got made? Just how many ideas do producers have that never happen because the money isn't right? Look how quick they've been to dump Jackson over money. They don't care about artistic integrity. I do and that is what influences how I use CoO, because it's that angle I want to track.


Nice revisionist history...I have been following this quite closely.  New Line didn't dump Jackson, Jackson refused to do anything concerning The Hobbit until he got a larger piece of the LotR pie.


It's not revisionist at all! He asked for more, they said no. Dumped over money. He overplayed his hand, but I think New Line have cut their nose off to spite their face. It comes down to greed on both sides; Jackson didn't need it, but New Line could easily have afforded his demands. They're as bad as each other. Now, if the prequel gets made, it'll always be thought of as a tacked on money grabbing cash in. It was probably always going to be, but at least Jackson could have made it seem genuine!

I agree with Rifter. Money certainly does grease the wheels as he put it. It's always fascinated me about the balancing act between art and business in movies. However, unlike Rifter, I don't think money should dictate the use of this field.
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

 Last edited: by JonM
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSquirrelecto
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 793
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
The problem with Gerri's post is that the production company for LoTR (WingNut) is based in New Zealand.
So does Gerri think the production company was based in the US or does she class New Line (the funder/distributor) as the production company?
We need clarification on what Invelos think "production company" means. Is it the company that fund the film, make the film or distribute the film?


People seem to think that New Line isn't a production company because it is a movie studio.  I am not sure why that is so let us define a production company.  From Wikepedia:

Production company refers to a company responsible for the development and physical production of performing arts, film, radio or a television program. The company may also be directly responsible for the raising of funding for the production or may do so through an intermediary. The production company may be a small company, selling its product to a film studio or presenting it at a theatrical venue, or, in the case of film and television, it may be the studio itself.

That is the standard definition of a production company.  Both New Line and WingNut fall into this category.  Because both companies fall into that category we have to decide which one takes priority.

New Line was responsible for the development, raising of funding, presenting it at a theatrical venue and it was the studio itself.  WingNut was responsible for the physical production.  In my book, New Line was responsible for more things and took the bigger risk...that is why they are listed first in the credits.


If you want to take the first studio for each film as being the Country of Origin, then get ready to justify having different CoOs in different profiles of the same film, depending merely on which locality the DVD is from.

I haven't looked at the onscreen credits for the LOTR films, but all I see is "A WINGNUT FILMS PRODUCTION" in the credits on the back cover. I can't see anywhere where it says "A NEW LINE CINEMA PRODUCTION".
 Last edited: by Squirrelecto
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,594
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Quoting sugarjoe:
Quote:
Rifter please keep your completely irrelevant political views to yourself.

Thank you.


...this coming from someone with a political statement as his avatar
My WebGenDVD online Collection
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSquirrelecto
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 793
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Since we are starting to get into definitions, pretty much every film and TV archive in the world, including those in North America, follows the International Federation of Film Archives' rules for cataloguing movies and TV programmes, and they define Country of Origin as:

Quote:
that of the principal offices of the production company by whom the work
was made.


The extensive rules are available here:

http://www.fiafnet.org/uk/publications/fep_cataloguingRules.cfm
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 2,372
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Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting sugarjoe:
Quote:
Rifter please keep your completely irrelevant political views to yourself.

Thank you.


...this coming from someone with a political statement as his avatar


Thought the same thing earlier 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registranttarantino
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 131
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Thanks Squirrel!

Very informative

They also define the production company as:
Quote:

Production company - the name of the company under whose financial, technical, and
organizational management a moving image work is made. In a broad sense, the
production company is responsible for the overall creation of the work.


Also in case of international co-production, they will lists them all:

Quote:

When more than one corporate name is associated with a particular function, as in the
case of international co-productions, list the places, names, and dates of production first,
followed by those for cooperation, sponsorship, presentation, studios, laboratories, and
distribution/release, as appropriate. Within functions, list places, names, and dates in an
appropriate order (as found on the copy held, chronologically, etc.). Archives will normally
choose a method of ordering multiple names within functions, and should try to coordinate this
choice with that for choice of order for parallel titles (cf. 1.3.3).


Searching the Library of Congress will give many many good examples of these classification rules.
 Last edited: by tarantino
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,181
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Quoting JonM:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quote:
Quoting JonM:
And did New Line even care if it got made? Just how many ideas do producers have that never happen because the money isn't right? Look how quick they've been to dump Jackson over money. They don't care about artistic integrity. I do and that is what influences how I use CoO, because it's that angle I want to track.


Nice revisionist history...I have been following this quite closely.  New Line didn't dump Jackson, Jackson refused to do anything concerning The Hobbit until he got a larger piece of the LotR pie.


It's not revisionist at all! He asked for more, they said no. Dumped over money. He overplayed his hand, but I think New Line have cut their nose off to spite their face. It comes down to greed on both sides; Jackson didn't need it, but New Line could easily have afforded his demands. They're as bad as each other. Now, if the prequel gets made, it'll always be thought of as a tacked on money grabbing cash in. It was probably always going to be, but at least Jackson could have made it seem genuine!


I can agree with that and I am sorry that I misread your post.  I thought you were laying it all on New Line.  I think both sides are being short sighted.  If Jackson had made 'The Hobbit' he probably would have made a lot more money than he was asking for.  By the same token, had New Line given him the money and allowed him to make the film they would be getting a lot more than they would have given him.

Just another stupid pi$$ing contest. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
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