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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting t001z: Quote:
Behemot, did you just copy and paste your comments from the other discussion to here?
No, actually I copied my comments from this discussion and pasted it into the other discussion in the Contribution Rules Committee forum, where I would have posted exclusively in the first place had I been aware of the ongoing discussion there - I explained this in my post in the other forum, so I don't understand why you're bringing it up. And even if an actor does a voice performance only in a live-action movie I don't see why it necessarily should be CORRECT to use the (voice) checkbox, for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. | | | | Last edited: by Behemot |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
I disagree with most of you on this, it seems  
I don't see why the voice checkbox should be checked for non-animated films. Normally, if an actor in a live-action movie only has a voice part his role name reflects this, e.g. "Griffin's Voice" as mentioned in the first post. I don't see the point of using the checkbox when the role name states so clearly that this is a voice performance. (BTW, when the IMDB uses (voice) for a role name where it says e.g. "Voice of X", they usually remove the "Voice of" from the role name so that the actor is credited as "X (voice)". Hope this won't happen in DVDProfiler...)
For a number of DVD's I have no clue if the role name reflects it or not (I simply do not know the language the credits are in). Quote:
In other cases, where an actor does voice work only but is credited with a regular character name, without an added "Voice by", then this is how that person is credited in the movie, and I don't see why one should use the checkbox to "augment" the role name in the credits.
The voice checkbox contains data on the specific role in the database. This is useful when the primary data (the role) field can't reliable be interpreted in all use cases - either because it is in another language (as I already mentioned), or because it is used by a computer program that can't be expected to be able to interpret natural language as used in the credit field. For example a web frontend allowing to filter away "voice only" appearances from the list of movies an actor participated in. Quote:
In animated movies, the cast list normally begins with "Featuring the voices of" or something similar, and in this case I totally agree with using the voice checkbox (of course).
I fail to see the meaning of setting it solely for animated movies. Basically what is being said is: For an animated movie, set the checkmark for every role. For other movies, make sure no role has the voice checkmark set. From a database and userinterface point of view, this is pretty much as wrong as it can be. If the movie determines the state of all role checkboxes, then they should be replaced by a single checkbox on the movie itself. Assuming it is not a complete database design disaster the idea behind the field must be that it can be set for individual roles within a movie. If collecting this data is not feasable, then the field should be removed. The problem of the text showing up as "Voice of X (voice) is the result of the current view of the database - and adapting the content of a database to match a view as it happens to look now is "problematic" (for critical data I would use the term disasterous, but it is only a DVD collection after all). | | | Regards
Lars |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting t001z: Quote:
Which is why I am trying to change this right now. Hey, I'm all for it personally.  | | | | Corey |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am sorry, but using 'voice' for animated films only just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless it is a film like 'Who Framed Roger Rabit', it should be quite obvious that it was a voice only role and checking the box is superfluous at best.
Where this check box is needed most is live action films where it is not always as obvious. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | My understanding was for the checkbox was also, for future program development and those who wanted to do reports on Voice actors. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have been waiting for the dust to settle to contribute amongst a few others an uncredited voice only entry for Hot fuzz. Which way should I do it? Role "Voice of Dave" Voice unticked, Dave voice ticked or both???? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting t001z: Quote:
Quoting Katatonia:
Quote:
Quoting Speedy666:
Quote:
If the credits are not from an animated film he should be listed as Griffin's Voice.
According to the rules the "Voice" checkbox should only be used for animated films.
Speedy
It does indeed, which is the dilemma.
Which is why I am trying to change this right now.
Behemot, did you just copy and paste your comments from the other discussion to here?
If a character is not seen, only heard, then it is VOICE ONLY. I am not sure how people think that this does not apply???
The issue at hand in this discussion though is the way the rule is phrased, it leads people to believe that the time to use the voice checkbox is during animated films and not merely when the role is only a voice role -- after all, not all animated films state "Voice of ...." but we still check the voice box because we know it it correct. Let's just change the wording of the rule so that it follows the intent and reduces the confusion...m  Let's get real here. We all know cartoons can't talk. So for a cartoon to have a voice, it MUST have a human "voice" to give it character and life. The program uses a checkbox to indicate that. In a real movie, a voice only role is human just like the rest of the cast. We all know that. If the role says "Narrator" or "Voice on Telephone" we know its still a human voice. There is no need to check the box since we have already been told it is voice only in the role name. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | 1. Griffin (voice)
2. Griffin's Voice
3. Griffin's Voice (voice)
1. not as credited
2. as credited
3. (voice) is redundant
So what's best? Easy: #2 | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
My understanding was for the checkbox was also, for future program development and those who wanted to do reports on Voice actors. That's my understanding as well. When the conversion was made from Intervocative to Invelos, the entries that were marked with full (uncredited) or (voice) tags were autmatically converted to tick the appropriate box. The ones without or the ones that had truncated tags, such as (uncr.), all have to be updated manually. It makes sense to me to continue to use the functionality of the program. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I am sorry, but using 'voice' for animated films only just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless it is a film like 'Who Framed Roger Rabit', it should be quite obvious that it was a voice only role and checking the box is superfluous at best.
Where this check box is needed most is live action films where it is not always as obvious. Agree. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,005 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
1. Griffin (voice)
2. Griffin's Voice
3. Griffin's Voice (voice)
1. not as credited
2. as credited
3. (voice) is redundant
So what's best? Easy: #2 Best is number 3. From a programming standpoint number 3 is the best choice. It's as credited and also uses the voice flag, which maybe will have additional functionality in later versions (maybe it already does). For example putting special icons in skins or reports. | | | 
 | | | | Last edited: by TomGaines |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
My understanding was for the checkbox was also, for future program development and those who wanted to do reports on Voice actors.
That's my understanding as well. When the conversion was made from Intervocative to Invelos, the entries that were marked with full (uncredited) or (voice) tags were autmatically converted to tick the appropriate box. The ones without or the ones that had truncated tags, such as (uncr.), all have to be updated manually. It makes sense to me to continue to use the functionality of the program.
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I am sorry, but using 'voice' for animated films only just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless it is a film like 'Who Framed Roger Rabit', it should be quite obvious that it was a voice only role and checking the box is superfluous at best.
Where this check box is needed most is live action films where it is not always as obvious.
Agree. Agreed on both counts also! And with the below: Quoting TomGaines: Quote:
Best is number 3.
From a programming standpoint number 3 is the best choice. It's as credited and also uses the voice flag, which maybe will have additional functionality in later versions (maybe it already does). For example putting special icons in skins or reports. | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not speaking for Ken but.... In our chat with him where he told us about the idea of the checkbox he had this to say. Ken Cole: the plus side of a checkbox is the program could allow custom display (or none) of the voice indicatoralso Ken Cole: i expect "as credited" would need adjustment to remove redundancyso unless his direction has changed (and only he can answer that) his idea was to use it for all voice roles for reasons similar to what Tom said and adjust the rules to accommodate it. FWIW - I agree with Kens direction  | | | | Last edited: by lyonsden5 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Go one way or the other, that is my whole point, Rick. Frankly I don't care which way, but redundant data is simply stupid.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | My fear is that if we start making exceptions to "as credited" someone will attempt to drive a semi through it. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mine as well, and god knows we have more than a few users who are absolutely willing to try it. I could name names.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's a bit of a stretch. It would be easy enough to spell it out in the rules with one or two sentences. No wiggle room. Just specifically state to remove "voice of" to avoid redundancy. |
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