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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Credited As issues yet again |
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| Author |
Message |
 | t001z | | Reg: January 30, 2005 |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 |  Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not sure if this warrents a new topic, as I have seen it raised many times before, but where to put it is the question as many of the same people (and yes they do post here not just vote) should have seen it before.
I will use the real example that irritated me so badly (but withhold the names to protect the guilty). The purpose of the "Credited As" as I understand it is when someone is in the end credits as 'J. J. Cohen' and others know that his real name is 'Jeffrey Jay Cohen'. In DVD Profiler, he is listed as 'Jeffrey Jay Cohen' (which is incorrect).
The problem is that people are voting NO because they are saying it is up to the person making the change to use 'Credited As...'. I don't see how people expect someone else to do the work to find out if it is a credited as name or not... they are following the rules, the name is listed in the end credits as 'J. J. Cohen'. If some of you out there want to use the credited as feature for this person, then once the name is changed, go back and make the change using the Credited As...
I really like the ability to see how others voted, but I think this is one example where people looked at the other votes and said, "hey yeah, he should have used credited as, so I am voting no" and they did not even know why and some of them don't even bother to review the rule.
The rules state "For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited." According to these rules, there should be no votes for NO in this case.
The reason I am taking this so "personally" is that the person who submitted the change is a newbie who really is trying to improve our database and is making a concerted effort to follow the rules, then they get hit with this which will probably cause their contribution to be Denied. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree entirely. It's happened to me with some obscure Swedish actor. I don't know who the hell they are, I just credited them as the credit roll credited them. What am I supposed to do now? Find out if minor cast members are lurking under an alias? No chance. | | | | Guns don't kill people. Hammers do. | | | | Last edited: by Kevin Coed |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | edit: Did some research, changed my vote, but my reasoning below still stands. Only it's not applicable in this case. With regards to this: Quote:
The problem is that people are voting NO because they are saying it is up to the person making the change to use 'Credited As...'. I don't see how people expect someone else to do the work to find out if it is a credited as name or not... To me it boils down to the whole "if you make a change, make sure it's correct" debate. If this was a new contribution I wouldn't expect someone to go through the entire cast list and research each and every name. But since it's a change to existing data and only one name, I don't think it's too much to ask for contributors to make sure that the changes they make are accurate. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
I'm one of the ones who voted no.
With regards to this: Quote:
The problem is that people are voting NO because they are saying it is up to the person making the change to use 'Credited As...'. I don't see how people expect someone else to do the work to find out if it is a credited as name or not...
To me it boils down to the whole "if you make a change, make sure it's correct" debate.
If this was a new contribution I wouldn't expect someone to go through the entire cast list and research each and every name. But since it's a change to existing data and only one name, I don't think it's too much to ask for contributors to make sure that the changes they make are accurate.
KM Exactly!!! The contributor made one change and one change only to an already existing profile. He made a change to the "common name" so it's up to him to justify it. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with t001z and Kevin Coed. The use of the "Common name"/"as credited" function is NOT mandatory. If I understood this correctly, then the name in the credits is J.J. Cohen, while the profile listed him incorrectly as Jeffrey Jay Cohen. In this case the contributor corrected what is in effect an error in the existing cast list, and I should think it would be against the rules to vote No just because he didn't use the "Common name"/"as credited" function. There are still no clear rules on when and how to use this linking function, so until there are I think people should take it easy and just contribute the cast/crew as they are listed in the credits, unless we're talking about well-known actors/crew members who are credited in odd ways. | | | | Last edited: by Behemot |
| | t001z | | Reg: January 30, 2005 |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Exactly!!! The contributor made one change and one change only to an already existing profile. He made a change to the "common name" so it's up to him to justify it. You are partially correct. He did make one change and one change only, he changed the way it shows in the CREDITS. As Behemot stated, it is not mandatory to use the Credited As, what he changed is what the rules REQUIRE. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | t001z, not sure I'm understanding what your saying. Was the profile Jeffrey Jay Cohen and the credits J. J. Cohen so the contributor just changed it to J. J. Cohen and voters want him to use the credited as feature?
The thing is looking at Jeffrey's film work he is more commonly credited as J. J. Cohen than he is Jeffrey Jay Cohen or as J. Jay Cohen. So really the J. J. Cohen should be the common name.
But, in any case you are correct using the credited as feature is not manditory. Hopefully the screeners can see past the No votes. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting t001z: Quote:
I don't see how people expect someone else to do the work to find out if it is a credited as name or not... they are following the rules, the name is listed in the end credits as 'J. J. Cohen'. If some of you out there want to use the credited as feature for this person, then once the name is changed, go back and make the change using the Credited As... In a similar line of reasoning, you voted 'no' when I did an 'as credited' review of cast and crew on a profile and I encountered some unmarked uncredited entries in the existing profile. I checked the box to mark them as uncredited yet you voted 'no' and cited that I should document them or remove them. What rule requires me to do either of those things? As a result of your vote and 2 others, the contribution was declined and the database still contains cast and crew that isn't 'as credited' and the unmarked uncredited are still there...unmarked.  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | t100z:
Some users are trying very hard toi stampede us towards the Common Nmae BEFORE Ken has released his standards and criteria. If it is J. J. Cohen On SCREEn then that is what it should be.
Ken REQUIRES you to document (uncredioted), James. Document them or remove them, I would have voted No as well. At least I vote consistently.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Ken REQUIRES you to document (uncredioted), James. Document them or remove them, Where do the rules require that? Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I would have voted No as well. At least I vote consistently. That's interesting since you have voted 'yes' on the current contribution for Harvey in which the user is adding (uncredited) to an unmarked uncredited.  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | As usual you don't get it. Why am I NOT surprised? Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting t001z: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Exactly!!! The contributor made one change and one change only to an already existing profile. He made a change to the "common name" so it's up to him to justify it.
You are partially correct. He did make one change and one change only, he changed the way it shows in the CREDITS. As Behemot stated, it is not mandatory to use the Credited As, what he changed is what the rules REQUIRE. This is where I'm confused. The way I interpret the rule for "credited as" for an existing profile is if the actor's name, in this instance 'Jeffrey Jay Cohen' differs from the credited name, then use "credited as". Am I wrong in this interpretation? | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | There's nothing in the rules that require to keep the existing name in a profile and just use the credited as feature. The same is true with there's nothing in the rules that prevent a contributor for leaving the exiting name and just using the credited as feature as well. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Quoting t001z:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Exactly!!! The contributor made one change and one change only to an already existing profile. He made a change to the "common name" so it's up to him to justify it.
You are partially correct. He did make one change and one change only, he changed the way it shows in the CREDITS. As Behemot stated, it is not mandatory to use the Credited As, what he changed is what the rules REQUIRE.
This is where I'm confused. The way I interpret the rule for "credited as" for an existing profile is if the actor's name, in this instance 'Jeffrey Jay Cohen' differs from the credited name, then use "credited as". Am I wrong in this interpretation? I understand what you are saying but I see nothing that proves his 'common' name is 'Jeffrey Jay Cohen'. Just because someone stuck that into the profile doesn't mean it is correct. As an example, if I come across a film that has 'Marion Michael Morrison' in the profile and the credits say 'John Wayne', do I have to use the 'credited as' feature and leave the common name as 'Marion Michael Morrison'? It's no different here...at least in my opinion.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Without standards and criteria usage of Common name, in 98% of the instances, is an exercise in insanity. But without using As Credited,which is the foundation of the program. then Credited As will NEVE$R have any value..
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
As usual you don't get it. Why am I NOT surprised?
Skip Yes James you don't get it. Remember that the published rules don't apply to Skip, he is allowed to contribute and vote to his personal preference. How many times to you need to be reminded of this!  Being a normal mortal user, like you, I agree with your interpretation that rules do not require you to document or remove. As for the main point of the thread, the exact point is not exactly clear. But imo if someone can document a common name, then it is fully within the rules and a No vote is wrong. It ain't pretty atm, and I agree that we need some standards, rules, system... whatever... but the rules do not stipulate that we have to wait, and Ken/Gerri have made no hint that they want us to. | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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