| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | I completely understand your reasons for wanting to credit FRANCOIS as François, since it's seldom that the letter "ç" and accents are used when names are capitalized in French. I do, however, think that this will complicate things a lot, and one could end up with a lot of incorrect credits. I have another example: In Italian, it's normal to change the accent grave to an apostrophe when capitalized, e.g. ò to O'Quoting Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_graveQuote:
The grave accent marks the stressed vowel of a word in Catalan and Italian. Some examples from Italian are città "city", morì "[he/she] died", virtù "virtue", Mosè "Moses", portò "[he/she] brought, carried". Especially with capital letters, or when using a keyboard without accented letters, an apostrophe is sometimes used instead of it in Italian, thus E’ instead of È "[he/she/it] is", though this is considered (at least) inelegant and inaccurate. This is the case for the actor Manfredi Aliquò: http://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/voci/vocimal.htm whose name is capitalized as MANFREDI ALIQUO' in the HBO series "Rome". Should he then be credited as Manfredi Aliquò or as Manfredi Aliquo'? Neither way is completely correct, but using the apostrophe is the way that most closely resembles what's on the screen, IMO. | | | | Last edited: by Behemot |
|
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
Neither way is completely correct, but using the apostrophe is the way that most closely resembles what's on the screen, IMO. Yes, because you apply the capitalization rules of a locality where accents aren't really used. Any conversion between lower/uppercase can only be done by applying the rules of a locality. For example the dot magically appears when we convert "I" to "i" using for example the English rules while it should not happen when using Turkish rules. I am not trying to say how this should be handled, I am just trying to say that arguments like "I am using a neutral conversion" and "I do not add anything I do not see on the screen" etc do not make any sense. | | | Regards
Lars |
|
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| |
| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
This is the case for the actor Manfredi Aliquò: http://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/voci/vocimal.htm
whose name is capitalized as MANFREDI ALIQUO' in the HBO series "Rome". Should he then be credited as Manfredi Aliquò or as Manfredi Aliquo'? Neither way is completely correct, but using the apostrophe is the way that most closely resembles what's on the screen, IMO. It's Manfredi Aliquò. That sign you see on screen is intended as an accent `, not an apostrophe '. In Italian names the apostrophe is used only between two parts of a surname, for instance "D'Alessandro". | | | | -- Enry |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rho:
It IS adding data which does NOT appear On Screen. Iwould agree with you Behemot
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
(...) whose name is capitalized as MANFREDI ALIQUO' in the HBO series "Rome". Should he then be credited as Manfredi Aliquò or as Manfredi Aliquo'? Neither way is completely correct, but using the apostrophe is the way that most closely resembles what's on the screen, IMO. Manfredi Aliquò is the only correct solution. "O`" in Italian is always converted to the lower case "ò". "o`" does not exist in the Italian language. |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Rho:
It IS adding data which does NOT appear On Screen. Iwould agree with you Behemot
Skip No data is added! The upper case "C" has to be converted to the corresponding lower case character. That can be either "ç" or "c" depending on the language. |
|
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Maybe, but he also said that in a US profile "C" would always be converted to "c". And that would be wrong. Quoting RHo: Quote:
The upper case "C" has to be converted to the corresponding lower case character. That can be either "ç" or "c" depending on the language. I do not want to be an ass, but you're contradicting yourself. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rho: I have seen the following credit FRANÇOIS, which according to you and my old french teacher would be incorrect.  I have saaid this before, when i am editing I have NO cultural identity, my culture is that which I SEE on the screen, do not put data that does NOT appear there. We have a way to deal with Cultural issues now, it's called the Coomon Name(Alias) system. You enter the data as you see it, nothing more or less. I am shocked that this is still a discussion since 3.x renders such discussions completely moot. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | You can't assume that just because you've seen FRANÇOIS in some end credits that FRANCOIS means Francois.
Even if we do go ahead and start using end credits from one locality to "fix" other localities, the fact that you can't differentiate these names means you may not be the best person to do the fixing. |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Maybe, but he also said that in a US profile "C" would always be converted to "c". And that would be wrong.
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
The upper case "C" has to be converted to the corresponding lower case character. That can be either "ç" or "c" depending on the language.
I do not want to be an ass, but you're contradicting yourself. How? I can't see it. |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think when you said "depending on the language", you meant the language of the name, but I think Martin reads that as the language of the profile which would be a contradiction. |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Rho:
I have seen the following credit FRANÇOIS (...) There is no doubt that FRANÇOIS would be converted to François. But we can not conclude from this that FRANCOIS can not be converted to François as well. |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think when you said "depending on the language", you meant the language of the name, but I think Martin reads that as the language of the profile which would be a contradiction. Ah, I can see. No, the language of a name is not depending on the locality of the profile. In every profile in every locality "FRANCOIS TRUFFOT" should be converted to "François Truffot" because this well known director is a French guy with a French name. EDIT: It's a little bit like "Helena//Bonham Carter". "Helena/Bonham/Carter" is wrong even for US profiles. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | North: On the contrary I would argue I am the best person because i am not all wrapped in nationality and cultural issues, I simply deal with the data as I see it, no more or less. Let's say for example, north that I were doing an Overview from UK, which will of course use the Queen's English. And the word Colour is there, as a a yank I spell it differently, should I spell it yank style, no because the culture is what is in the Overview not what my cultural style would dictate. This is such a simple concept to me, I do not understand why everyone seems to almost react as if they had been personally attacked. The data appears on the screen, you type it as you see it and you apply NO culture to it, you CAN apply culture through the Common Name system. Somebody please explain what the big deal is? IF the data is not on screen you do not iunvent out of sense of cultural norm.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Patently untrue, Rho. Iknow I am clearly communicating this. Put down your cultural mantel. Skip <shakes head> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|