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  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 ...12  Previous   Next
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBroven
I am Jack's cold sweat.
Registered: May 9, 2007
United States Posts: 254
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Quoting Berak:
Quote:

I, for one, am in total agreement with Addicted here...


And I, for two.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it." - Jack Handey
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Sorry Neil, Pete is absolutely correct. Even if you make a comment such as Common Name used due to program inability to handle uppercase and lower case properly. But say SOMETHING, my friend. Don't act like some of the others we have  who are far more interested inn saving their own keystrokes and being brief (ghiding behind Gerri) than communicating adequately with other users. The notes are more for other users now and in the future than they are are for screeners..


Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGemini76
Registered: May 18, 2007
Norway Posts: 232
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You could try and ducument or mention the lack of documentation for the old credit. I do this if it applies, as there's no way I can see if these credits have been taken from the film, or imdb. This usually works. And if it don't, you can always add more documentation.

Like with Dave Fox/David Fox, I just supplied a link to a bio on each of them.
 Last edited: by Gemini76
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,675
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Quoting Gemini76:
Quote:
You could try and ducument or mention the lack of documentation for the old credit. I do this if it applies, as there's no way I can see if these credits have been taken from the film, or imdb. This usually works. And if it don't, you can always add more documentation.

Like with Dave Fox/David Fox, I just supplied a link to a bio on each of them.



See that is the whole point... he said he researched them all on the net and used the CLT to find the common name. But he feels he shouldn't have to provide documentation only because HE feels it is obvious. So what he is in sense saying is he did find the documentation but feels he shouldn't have to provide it because he thinks it should be obvious. ... So to take his word for it.

But that just brings into question... if he felt it was obvious why did he look up the info first like he said? and if he did find the need to look it up first why is he refusing to offer the documentation up in the contribution notes?

But I guess all this is moot since he said he is giving up contributing.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,846
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All changes should be documented, no matter how trivial.  I'm betting that's the real reason the contribution was declined, not because of Addicted's no vote.

Skip, your comment about "hiding behind Gerri" was out of line.  That's like saying the Chief of Staff is hiding behind the President of the United States because they did what the President said to do.

So I agree with Addicted.  I'm sorry to see Pantheon go for what I personally see as extremely trivial.  Rules state to document your changes - that's the bottom line.  I've had 100% valid changes declined because I forgot to put the documentation in.  I resubmitted with documentation and guess what?  Accepted.
 Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,363
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
But I guess all this is moot since he said he is giving up contributing.

Yes, once again the community has succeeded in driving away yet another valuable contributor. 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,846
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
But I guess all this is moot since he said he is giving up contributing.

Yes, once again the community has succeeded in driving away yet another valuable contributor. 

I don't believe the community had any part in driving him away other than state he should follow the rules.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,363
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Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
I don't believe the community had any part in driving him away other than state he should follow the rules.

As far as I'm concerned, he did.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,178
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
But I guess all this is moot since he said he is giving up contributing.

Yes, once again the community has succeeded in driving away yet another valuable contributor. 

The community didn't drive him away.  Pete's request was a reasonable one.  I am sorry that Pantheon has decided, once again, to stop contributing...especially when it is over something as trivial as providing proper documentation.

Pantheon decided that he didn't have to follow the part of the rules that say, "make your notes useful and descriptive."  He was called on it and, rather than correct the error, decided he didn't have to.  I am sorry, but to blame the community for his decision to leave...over a valid no vote...is utter rubbish.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,675
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If my single no vote with a request to see documentation for changes he made (documentation for sites he claimed he went to anyway to be sure) is enough to drive him away... then there is something wrong there.

All I asked for is the sites he went to in the notes so I can see that these were really misspellings. I won't talk for him... and I am not saying this is the case... but it sure looks to me like he never did the research for them or I would think he wouldn't have a problem providing the sources.

Nope... instead he says because HE thinks it is obvious that he can't be bothered to document the use of the common names.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
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Ok.

Here's the thing.

I found the names mentioned in the profile. They didn't match the credits.

I looked on CLT to establish that the names in the profile were more common than the names in the credits. They were.

I looked on IMDB to see if these names seemed more common. They did. I then did a google search for the different versions of the actors names and found the names in the profile to be the ones that came up.

Now, I admit to NOT taking the time to note which google pages I viewed or what the results were. This comes down to an error on my part.

I also freely admit to being very stubborn about the issue of documentation for common names - partly because I very rarely contribute this information. Usually cases of, what I believe, to be obvious (such as LaPlaca vs. La Placa).

I am at fault here for not documenting the changes fully.

HOWEVER, the existing profile is still wrong. No one bothered to prevent THAT getting into the online database. So even if my data hadn't been researched (thanks for that accusation Pete!  ) I was still correcting INCORRECT information in the profile.
More importantly I was adding:
AUDIO TRACKS
3.5 CREW
OVERVIEW FORMATTING
STUDIOS
MEDIA COMPANY

So, it is NOT this particular issue alone that has made me decide to stop contributing to existing profiles. It is simply the fact that with inclusions to the program such as the Credited As it has just become more of a battle than a hobby.

I have every intention of continuing to contribute profiles that are not in the database (which I have been doing with child profiles recently).

It is entirely a failing on my part that I don't think to keep a detailed record of internet searches and sites when I am auditing my collection.
Should I do this? Well, obviously I should.
Will I do it? No. Sorry, but I spend enough time auditing my profiles without having to lead people by the hand.
I've done the work and submitted it - which is a damn site more than a lot of people bother to do.
I don't think it's asking much for someone else to google my work if they think it's unreliable.

However, given that I think my acceptance rate on conbributions is very high I don't think the community or the screeners have much call to doubt my work.

In this particular instance Pete was the ONLY person to vote NO. The only one. Everyone else agreed with the changes I had made and voted yes.
Now, maybe they were wrong according to the rules. But at least they employed their common sense.

Besides....point me to the part of the contribution rules that states you MUST document WHERE you got the information for Credited As from? I can only find a statement that we should use the CLT - which is exactly what I did.

Lastly, there are a lot bigger things in this forum that have 'driven me away' that this issue - which is why I edited my initial post to say I'd got bent out of shape. I over reacted. It's really not all that important. Maybe if I was intending to resubmit I would continue to argue. I'm not; so there's no point.

I hope that clarifies some of the conjecture and some of the unfounded and, quite frankly, hurtful accusations.
 Last edited: by Pantheon
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
I don't believe the community had any part in driving him away other than state he should follow the rules.

As far as I'm concerned, he did.

And as far as I'm concerned too. And you know what, I'm thinking about leaving these forums too as it only works on my nerves to constantly see the same people saying the same things over and over again, lecturing, belittleling and nitpicking.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
Posted:
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Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:

Besides....point me to the part of the contribution rules that states you MUST document WHERE you got the information for Credited As from? I can only find a statement that we should use the CLT - which is exactly what I did.


Although it's not specifically in the rules, it is on the contribution screen for every contribution to document all sources -

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,675
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I do not think Accusation is the right word... after all I did say...

Quote:
I won't talk for him... and I am not saying this is the case...


I think it was a fair statement to make and a logical thing to think since you just refused to provide the sites you used with no further explanation then you "couldn't be bothered" with it.

as for all the other work you did... there was nothing in my no vote against any of it.. and all I can go by is what Ken said in another thread...

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The Invelos evaluators' standing policy is to accept profiles that add significant value.  They do not have to be complete, nor even completely accurate.  If you're submitting 50 painstakingly correct cast entries but get the production year wrong, the profile should be accepted and corrected later.

"No" votes are equally valid in this case, however.  They allow the contributor a chance to correct their submission if they choose, and save someone the effort of the correction later on.

I've sent out a notes reiterating this policy to the evaluators.


That alone made me surprised they didn't approve it anyway... despite my no vote.

as for the reason for my no vote... I already showed where Ken put right in the page where you contribute that there must be documentation what you do. which includes all changes... especially cast and crew changes.
Pete
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT.  If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary.  However, in most cases it is not required.

I have notified the evaluators to disregard general demands for specific documentation of common name outside the use of the CLT.

Users who prefer more rigidly documented common names are free to enforce those rules on their local data.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:

Besides....point me to the part of the contribution rules that states you MUST document WHERE you got the information for Credited As from? I can only find a statement that we should use the CLT - which is exactly what I did.


Although it's not specifically in the rules, it is on the contribution screen for every contribution to document all sources -



That's what I did.

It states 'indicated the source of the data'.

I stated that I verified the Credited As by researching on the internet and then confirmed the findings with the CLT.

That section does NOT state that you have to list every damned site that you visit and what the results were. It simply says to say where you got your information.

I got the information off the internet. Don't believe me? Then look for yourself before you vote.

And...before Pete chimes in with why should be trust you.... That's entirely up to you.
But I'd be surprised if you check EVERY time someone lists a bunch of sites. I know I don't. A list of sites is a smokescreen IMO.
The times when I have bothered to check (usually on a contribution from someone I don't recognise) they've totally lied.

The proportion of users who actually vote is so tiny in comparison to the amount of users who own this program.

And...I think that most of the voters know my work to be reliable and with the communities best interests at heart.

So, maybe it's arrogant to want some trust in return for my years of hard work. Maybe it's unreasonable. Well, sorry, but that's just how it is.
I do the work. I submit it. Other people benefit from it.

To date I don't think I've ever been 'called out' for submitting something that was deliberately wrong or aimed at destroying this database.

However, I do think that some users can't see beyond the end of their own nose - in front of which they have stapled the contribution rules....what they don't realise is that those rules are all blurry and they can't read them properly anymore. If they just moved them further away they'd make a lot more sense...
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