Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Discussion on International titles vs. Original title for the Main Title field for Asian Films
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
What is so offensive about entering "Kuutamosonaatti" as the main title and "The Moonlight Sonata" as an alternative title (in the original title field per proposal that I outlined earlier)?  Before you have a heart attack, this is only an example and I am not going to change anything at this time, until this is blessed by Ken and the DVDP community


The fact that if its in the original title field, means its the original title. Its misleading. I use and need the OT section, if there suddenly starts popping up profiles with wrong titles, its usability would suffer a lot.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 735
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
The example of the Finnish title is one that isn't quite exact.  After all, we can reproduce that since it exists using Western characters.  We can't do the same with Asian ones.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 452
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting whispering:
Quote:
Well for starters i dont actually know where its being sold as "Symphaty for Lady Vengeance"

In Korea, it's right on the cover:
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Quoting whispering:
Quote:
I'll give you an example, a movie lets say "She's All That" is released here (Finland) it is localised as "Sinussa on se jokin" The opening has the title in English, yet we, finnish users still prefer our own title to be used. Up comes a fellow called Trinitron (among with hes, i'm guessing, 100's of aliases) and changes the title and overview to English. We all know how much work people have gone through to force the correct information in. What you are suggesting, is that he, all along was right. Because apparently English is "defacto international language", so the rest of the happy funtimeing world should stop speaking with the only language they use in daily life and start speaking english, cause there just might be a guy like xradman buying DVD's from that country.

I am sick and tired of this topic popping up on behalf of you, I have requested an "alternative title" field, i dont remember you doing the same. Stop trying to bend the rules for your preferences, and go to the feature request area and ask an option for the title you seem to need.


Whispering,

Please do not get angry. First of all this is a hobby for all of us and there is no reason to get personal. I've probably spent way more time here already than I should have. But let me try to clear up any misunderstanding.

First, Finnish DVD of "She's All That" is an American movie sold in Finland. So it has no bearing on our discussion. Presumably the main title would be "Sinussa on se jokin" (correct title for locality) and original title would be "She's All That". I don't think this is too hard to understand, and if there is a troublemaker causing havok with Finnish DVDs, then that is unfortunate.

The issue is with Finnish DVD of a Finnish movie. I had to go on Google and search for Finnish movie to come up with this. Let's say that there is a Finnish DVD of "Kuutamosonaatti", a movie released in Finland in 1988.  The movie is also known by it's international title of "The Moonlight Sonata" according to the Finnish film archive (http://www.sea.fi/english/cinema.html). 

What is so offensive about entering "Kuutamosonaatti" as the main title and "The Moonlight Sonata" as an alternative title (in the original title field per proposal that I outlined earlier)?  Before you have a heart attack, this is only an example and I am not going to change anything at this time, until this is blessed by Ken and the DVDP community



Entering the title as you describe would be fine if you were talkin about Region 5 Locality Korea, but you are talking about something which is basically locality United States, which speaks English, We have Canada divided into the two localities they have one French and one English, it would be inappropriate for someone from Quebec(French) to try to impose the French language data on the Canada (English) area. Same is true here, you reside in the US, i don't care what language might be native to you, the Rules are suitable to the US, not to Muslims, Mexico, France or anywhere else, the Locality is US. And as I have said before continually trying to bend the program to specific cultural proclivities is simply not going to work. I would NOT buy a DVD from Region 5 Locality South Korea and expect to be able to Contribute the information in English, I would probably keep the data locally English, but the Loacality South Korea should be in the language of the area. I presume my friends from Region 2 Locality UK would probably deal in a similar fashion with something they might acqire from Region 2 Japan. I am sorry xradman what you want can be done but it has to remain local.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Proposal #1

  Main title: Chinjeolhan Geum-ja ssi (title corresponding to DVD locality of Korea)
  Original title: Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (if we relax the rule to allow original or alternate title)

Proposal #2

  Main title: Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (if we modify the rule to use a common international title for the main title for all regions - personal preference)
  Original title: Chinjeolhan Geum-ja ssi (down side is that this does not leave room for local title if the DVD is released with title different from orginal local title or international in countries other than the original country or English speaking country - ie. DVD released in Germany with title different from the international title)

I would support proposal #3

The original title should always be the title which has been used at the world premiere of a movie. If the title card in the credits would feature the title in two languages (as I understand is the case with those Asian movies?), this complete title (both languages) should be in the original title field (possibly separated with a dash). If there is an alternate title on the cover of the DVD, this title should be entered into the main title (sometimes aka alternate title) field. If this alternate title is available in the language of the locality, that title has to be preferred for the main title field.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Entering the title as you describe would be fine if you were talkin about Region 5 Locality Korea, but you are talking about something which is basically locality United States, which speaks English, We have Canada divided into the two localities they have one French and one English, it would be inappropriate for someone from Quebec(French) to try to impose the French language data on the Canada (English) area. Same is true here, you reside in the US, i don't care what language might be native to you, the Rules are suitable to the US, not to Muslims, Mexico, France or anywhere else, the Locality is US. And as I have said before continually trying to bend the program to specific cultural proclivities is simply not going to work. I would NOT buy a DVD from Region 5 Locality South Korea and expect to be able to Contribute the information in English, I would probably keep the data locally English, but the Loacality South Korea should be in the language of the area. I presume my friends from Region 2 Locality UK would probably deal in a similar fashion with something they might acqire from Region 2 Japan. I am sorry xradman what you want can be done but it has to remain local.

Skip


Skip,

I have no idea as to what you are talking about???
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Last time I checked, many movies had English titles next to local titles in the opening screen (and this is not a special version made for the foreign English market). If that's not official, I don't know what is.

In this case even the current rules require both languages in the original title field (or, if the same as the cover, the main title field) because the title is composed by both parts. For clarification of the graphical layout (two lines) a dash could be used to combine both parts. We see a lot titles matching this pattern as (translated) main titles in the German locality (e.g. Dune - Der Wüstenplanet).
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
In this case even the current rules require both languages in the original title field (or, if the same as the cover, the main title field) because the title is composed by both parts. For clarification of the graphical layout (two lines) a dash could be used to combine both parts. We see a lot titles matching this pattern as (translated) main titles in the German locality (e.g. Dune - Der Wüstenplanet).


Are you sure about that? My recollection on that matter is, that was something that the German community decided to do against the strict interpretation of the rules. The official rules specifically prohibits multiple language in title as shown below.

Quote:
If the title appears in multiple languages, use the title that matches the language of the locality and do not include an alternate title ( for instance in another language).
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:

All rules can be discussed.


Yes, but what you are suggesting is just plain stupid.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Let me try to explain from a different angle, xradman. Since much of my life these days is wrapped up in politics in Wash. D.C. You are wanting to have profiles treated differently within Region 1 because you are a native Korean. It's kind of like moving to the United States and trying to demand the population learn to speak Korean in order to communicate with you...that isn't going to happen obviously. As I have explained, were I purchasing a Region 5 Korea film, for Contribution purposes I would NOT be demanding that Region 5 users follow me, I would be following the Rules as they apply to Region 5, which means the data Contributed should be in Korean, I suspect. I would definitely keep my local data on that title in English but I would not Contribute the English data, which is what you are wanting to do here by my understanding. I am sorry but that is simply wrong-headed thinking on your part, and to make matters worse you come across as if you are PERSONALLY offended that we don't bend to your will, as you said this is a hobby roll with it and stop trying to make demands, which is the way your approach hits me. You aren't making a request, you are making a demand and expect us to bow to you on it.

If I have misjudged you, I apologize, but you have discussed this now for two years and from Day One this is how I have seen what you are saying.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:
In Korea, it's right on the cover

We are talking about an exception. Chinjeolhan Geumjassi is one of the most popular movies to come out of Korea, along with the other 2 from the trilogy.

What you usually see is that, no international title on the cover (well except one of them, kind of ):




 Last edited: by whispering
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Are you sure about that? My recollection on that matter is, that was something that the German community decided to do against the strict interpretation of the rules. The official rules specifically prohibits multiple language in title as shown below.

Yes, I' am sure about the German part. It is not a descision against the rules. It is something else than the bilingual covers of the Quebec locality which happen to list two titles in different languages. The German title officially consists of two parts separated by a dash. The first part may actually be in English even though it is not the original title.

E.g. "The Ref" is called "No Panic - Gute Geiseln sind selten" and "The Hudsucker Proxy" is called "Hudsucker - Der grosse Sprung"

German marketing guys have funny ideas.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting whispering:
Quote:
What you usually see is that, no international title on the cover

In those cases the main title should be the romanized version of what you see on the cover.

The international title can only be used for the original title field, if the international title has been used at the world premiere.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSquirrelecto
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 793
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Skip: Korea is Region 3 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 452
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting whispering:
Quote:
Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:
In Korea, it's right on the cover

We are talking about an exception. Chinjeolhan Geumjassi is one of the most popular movies to come out of Korea, along with the other 2 from the trilogy.

What you usually see is that, no international title on the cover (well except one of them, kind of ):

So? I've explicitly said only if the international title is shown on the cover and/or in the credits.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Battle Troll
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,411
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
German marketing guys have funny ideas.

Yeah, for example "The Village - Das Dorf" which backtranslated means "The Village - The Village". Happens all the time.

For that matter whe are "geniusses" in translating:

en - de - backtranslated
Die Hard - Stirb Langsam - Die Slowly
The Rundown - Welcome to the Jungle - ...
Craddle 2 the Grave - Born2Die - ...
Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of the Black Pearl - Fluch der Karabik - Curse of the Carribean (don't even ask about Part 2 and 3)


And my new "favourite"

Live Free or Die Hard - Stirb Langsam 4.0
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
Amazon Price Observer

 Last edited: by DJ Doena
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next