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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,826
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I still have a (relatively) young back.  I can take the criticism. 

The bottom line is that the forum rules do not demand that users always be polite.  Moderation can be taken to extremes, and if I don't want to be alone here with Katatonia and Kahless (not that that would be bad for me, but I imagine it would get boring for them), we have to allow some leeway.


This I agree with. There needs to be a balance. And we need to expect that not everyone will be polite posters. But is the scale still unbalanced at this point? That I can't say... as I personally believe that is for only Ken to decide.

One improvement I would personally like to see though. Is when I click the red arrow to have a (even short) text field for a reason for the red arrow. So I could put in something like...

- Name Calling
- Bypassing Profanity Filter
- Spam

So that the moderators at least understand why the red arrow was clicked.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 2,372
Posted:
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I still have a (relatively) young back.  I can take the criticism. 

The bottom line is that the forum rules do not demand that users always be polite.  Moderation can be taken to extremes, and if I don't want to be alone here with Katatonia and Kahless (not that that would be bad for me, but I imagine it would get boring for them), we have to allow some leeway.


Actually I see the opposite of what you fear. Not only would you not be alone with Katonia and Kahless but IMO people would return and posting would increase. Many now either fear posting as they don't want to get the abuse or they simply don't post cause it's not worth the aggravation they are likely to receive.

Just today someone dared question a statement made by our favorite troll and he was blasted for it. And do we really have ot mantion the "newbie snacks" 

I think you're looking at it completely wrong.

Good to know we don't have to be polite here though. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCool_doodad
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 404
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I still have a (relatively) young back.  I can take the criticism. 

The bottom line is that the forum rules do not demand that users always be polite.  Moderation can be taken to extremes, and  if I don't want to be alone here with Katatonia and Kahless (not that that would be bad for me, but I imagine it would get boring for them), we have to allow some leeway.


Seems like a strange statement, given the fact that so many people have left or don't participate because of a certain user. I was sure that you were trying to be alone.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,866
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From what I've gathered here, red flagging a post is the fastest way to bring a post to the moderators attention.  Otherwise, it's waiting for the moderator to stumble across it, if ever.

My personal opinion is that if someone has to have their posts edited several times a day to remove content deemed inappropriate, a temporary ban should be imposed.  Repeat infractions should have an increasingly longer ban.

A 24 hour ban is good for giving a warning as it's not readily visible to the rest of the site that a ban has been given because they're able to post again after a short time frame.  But if the point of the ban isn't learned, longer ones should be given and those would be apparent to the rest of the site due to sudden lack of posts from said user.
 Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,777
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I think that's good that some of you were horrified and shocked that I would post such language directed at Ken. If only it were so no matter who's posting it and to whom it's directed. Sadly, many of us are numb when such language comes from an expected source and we call it "leeway".

Ken, I understand the need to not overmoderate. On the other hand, I still don't agree with your statement of "by any objective standard, the atmosphere has changed and is continuing to change for the better." There are good periods...but there are still miserable periods. For the recipients of these attacks, things are not better.

As Mark said, however, our only choice is how we respond. If I post an opinion about a contribution rule, I'm usually called a rule breaker, told how I hold my opinion above others, I've always broken the rules, yadda yadda. It gets old. The only choice I have in order to avoid attacks is to not participate. I guess by not commenting, I contribute to the betterment of the atmosphere since it elminates the reciprocal attack.   


This was the conclusion that I and few others came to.  Amazingly, just when I think maybe it's okay to start participating again, the crapstorm fires right back up again.  I'm tweaking profiles daily in my local but I only contribute a small percentage of it because I just don't want to be bothered with the forums anymore.

I'll take your word for it that there is improvement, but I'm not seeing it.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,615
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Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
My personal opinion is that if someone has to have their posts edited several times daily to remove content deemed inappropriate, a temporary ban should be imposed.  Repeat infractions should have an increasingly longer ban.

I agree.  It's not that I get offended by such things, but they do tend to derail otherwise interesting discussions and that's what I have a problem with.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVittra
O.o
Registered: September 29, 2008
United States Posts: 384
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Things have not improved in my eyes...I have taken the same stance as others have and just decided not to participate in the forums much, if at all anymore. I'll read them sometimes but even then it gets disgusting with how bad they can get and I leave with a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyway, I will be crossing my fingers that "improvement" Ken speaks of will happen soon. Because as it stands, disagreeing with a certain user or even sharing an opinion that differs from their's will give you nothing but harassment back at you. Not a welcoming environment to share your thoughts at all.... 
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire
 Last edited: by Vittra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 3,321
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I live by the attitude of changing those things I have the power to change and not getting upset by those things I can't change.  I can change me, so I ignore people, ignore threads or just leave.  I can't change others which includes Ken, Invelos, moderators and particular users.  I can request that things change, but that's all I can do.  And since I have no power over those who can grant my requests, I just move along after voicing my opinion.

I just don't understand how you can get through life otherwise.  There are jerks everywhere, not just this site.

So I come here, read what I'm interested in, reply to things I wish to reply to, then move along.  My participation may be different if the atmosphere were different.  But until that happens, I see no point in upsetting myself.  Not when I have the power to just walk away.  At the end of the day, my life would not be greatly improved by a change in these forums.  It might be more fun to visit, but it really wouldn't be a life changing experience.  At the same time, I refuse to allow it to have a negative impact on my life.

Of course they're not my users / potential customers ($$$) being chased away.  So I have the luxury of not caring.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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I would love to offer some thoughts here, but there is so much venom and hatred, it would be a total waste of time. I can only say that I feel sorry for everybody here, you must be truly miserable in your hatred.

I will ask Ken however,
"THIS FORUM IS IN DESPERATE NEED OF LONG TERM IF NOT PERMANENT BANS! MODERATORS (AKA KEN) PLEASE ACT!"

Is this an appropriate signature or a blatant violation of TOS.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
One improvement I would personally like to see though. Is when I click the red arrow to have a (even short) text field for a reason for the red arrow. So I could put in something like...

- Name Calling
- Bypassing Profanity Filter
- Spam

So that the moderators at least understand why the red arrow was clicked.

That would be great. 
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
we need to expect that not everyone will be polite posters.


Why?

I try my very best to be polite when I post and I fully expect to be reprimanded when I'm not (but then I don't have a problem with apologising if I upset someone - which some users her would rather cut their own tongues out before doing).

I DO expect people to be polite here. I expect to be treated as I endeavour to treat others.
I know I've failed in the past (letting this forum get to me more than it should); but it's been a long time since I upset someone and I've never had a post moderated...why is the same so much to ask for from other users?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,826
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While in a perfect world I would agree. But in all reality life just don't work that way. All you can do is try to be the best you can be when posting. You can't control how others will post. Other then that all we can do is click the red arrow for ones that really bother us. Then it is up to Ken or The Moderators to decide how bad the post is and if the need to edit it or put a temp or permanent ban on the poster.

As Ken says he has to find the balance between just plain impolite or rude and something that is worse. Has he found that balance yet? That isn't mine to decide as it is his site... so I will not give an opinion on it.

Other then that all I can do is decide if it is pleasant enough here to keep posting or not. I can choose to deal with it or not. Other then that it is not up to me. That is just how I truly feel.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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Tried to keep myself out of here,

but some of you seem to forget that there are at least three other users who get heavily moderated. Just because these usually get moderated for (sometimes even unprovoked) attacking the already adressed user, doesn't make this any better. One of them even admits that he's trolling on purpose.

It's either all or none

This forum is, as surfeur would surely support, in wide areas an unfriendly place. This is NOT caused by a single user (how could this be) but by a whole bunch of them who seem to need a highly aggressive discussion to polish their ruffled egos. Many of them can be found in this thread, all screaming for bans.
Once more: If bans, then for all that behave inappropriate.

For those of us who care for a more friendly environment: this might help:

- If you don't have anything use- or helpful (or at least humorous) to ad to the discussion: Stay out, there will be other topics when your opinion is asked again.

- If you get attacked in a discussion you need to distinguish between:
  • a) attack on your opinion: This usually is OK, that's what I'd call discussion.

  • b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response.

  • c) Don't mix up a) and b) !!


  • - Even though Ken stated above that politeness is not necessarily a required attribute in these forums do not adress other users in a way that you wouldn't want to be adressed.

    - THINK before you write (it's not illegal yet)

    - Don't ask what the Mods can do to make this a better place (except if you are a Mod), do what you can do to achieve this goal.
    It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


    Registrant since 05/22/2003
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVittra
    O.o
    Registered: September 29, 2008
    United States Posts: 384
    Posted:
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    Quoting goblinsdoitall:
    Quote:
    Tried to keep myself out of here,

    but some of you seem to forget that there are at least three other users who get heavily moderated. Just because these usually get moderated for (sometimes even unprovoked) attacking the already adressed user, doesn't make this any better. One of them even admits that he's trolling on purpose.

    It's either all or none

    This forum is, as surfeur would surely support, in wide areas an unfriendly place. This is NOT caused by a single user (how could this be) but by a whole bunch of them who seem to need a highly aggressive discussion to polish their ruffled egos. Many of them can be found in this thread, all screaming for bans.
    Once more: If bans, then for all that behave inappropriate.

    For those of us who care for a more friendly environment: this might help:

    - If you don't have anything use- or helpful (or at least humorous) to ad to the discussion: Stay out, there will be other topics when your opinion is asked again.

    - If you get attacked in a discussion you need to distinguish between:
  • a) attack on your opinion: This usually is OK, that's what I'd call discussion.

  • b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response.

  • c) Don't mix up a) and b) !!


  • - Even though Ken stated above that politeness is not necessarily a required attribute in these forums do not adress other users in a way that you wouldn't want to be adressed.

    - THINK before you write (it's not illegal yet)

    - Don't ask what the Mods can do to make this a better place (except if you are a Mod), do what you can do to achieve this goal.



    I fully agree with what your saying here. In particular your a) and b) statements. The problem is, a good discussion with disagreements rarely happens around here. Some people, and I'm not singling out one user here, don't know how to stick to people's opinions when addressing them. They will always jump to the person behind the keyboard. This is not ok, and is never appropriate.

    The person behind the keyboard should always be left out of the equation and comments about it should be moderated but never are. There just so happen to be certain users that can't seem to carry on a disagreement without getting into personal attacks. This is what I'd like to see stop and what I'd like to see moderated and given repercussion for. There are repeat offenders that don't seem to be getting the message.
    "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
    Hello old friends!
    Registered: March 13, 2007
    Reputation: High Rating
    Posts: 2,372
    Posted:
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    Quoting goblinsdoitall:
    Quote:

    but some of you seem to forget that there are at least three other users who get heavily moderated. Just because these usually get moderated for (sometimes even unprovoked) attacking the already adressed user, doesn't make this any better. One of them even admits that he's trolling on purpose.

    It's either all or none


    Then ban them all. If someone has been banned already and they continue to act in the same way long term and or permanent bans (note it's plural) should be made.

    Hey, I think I read that somewhere 

    For the most part blocking annoying users works for me. Most users only post a couple times a day though and aren't the center of every real discussion. That's what makes the "block user" ineffective, as has been pointed out already.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVittra
    O.o
    Registered: September 29, 2008
    United States Posts: 384
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    Quoting Mark Harrison:
    Quote:
    I live by the attitude of changing those things I have the power to change and not getting upset by those things I can't change.  I can change me, so I ignore people, ignore threads or just leave.  I can't change others which includes Ken, Invelos, moderators and particular users.  I can request that things change, but that's all I can do.  And since I have no power over those who can grant my requests, I just move along after voicing my opinion.

    I just don't understand how you can get through life otherwise.  There are jerks everywhere, not just this site.

    So I come here, read what I'm interested in, reply to things I wish to reply to, then move along.  My participation may be different if the atmosphere were different.  But until that happens, I see no point in upsetting myself.  Not when I have the power to just walk away.  At the end of the day, my life would not be greatly improved by a change in these forums.  It might be more fun to visit, but it really wouldn't be a life changing experience.  At the same time, I refuse to allow it to have a negative impact on my life.

    Of course they're not my users / potential customers ($$$) being chased away.  So I have the luxury of not caring.


    To be clear, I don't let this forum get to me. I have only said the things I have because the forum doesn't have a welcoming atmosphere due to a few bad eggs. Which as a whole makes it less enjoyable to post on. Thankfully, I have plenty of other things in my life to keep me busy, so not having this forum to post on or even read, isn't incredibly pertinent to my life's happiness.   

    So I have been taking your "power to walk away" stance on the subject. 
    "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire
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