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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
It is indeed. If his common name included the suffix, it wouldn't matter whether it was mostly written with or without the comma - Ken's filter means that DVD Profiler would list him with the comma either way. In this case, his common name doesn't include the suffix at all, so we don't have to worry about that. Good, then we agree on that  But are we sure that his common name doesn't include the suffix? After all there are 28 titles/141 profiles that have him as William Wisher Jr. I haven't seen anything in this thread or in the contribution notes that suggests that those numbers are wrong (I haven't checked myself). The only thing I've seen is the claim that he is credited as William Wisher, Jr. once. | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
In my book the entry is dead wrong, tim. It most certainly is not. Quote:
Like I said he uses one credit for acting and one for Crew. Red herring: this has no bearing on anything whatsoever. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
It is indeed. If his common name included the suffix, it wouldn't matter whether it was mostly written with or without the comma - Ken's filter means that DVD Profiler would list him with the comma either way. In this case, his common name doesn't include the suffix at all, so we don't have to worry about that.
Good, then we agree on that
But are we sure that his common name doesn't include the suffix? After all there are 28 titles/141 profiles that have him as William Wisher Jr. I haven't seen anything in this thread or in the contribution notes that suggests that those numbers are wrong (I haven't checked myself). The only thing I've seen is the claim that he is credited as William Wisher, Jr. once. William Wisher Jr. has 1 page that is Terminator 2, which is an uncredited entry. These should not even be figured into common name, but should follow the common name. There are another 2 pages for The Terminaor, which are probably wrong entries (Won't swear to it). That basically leaves The Excorist Die Hard 4 (Which is William Wisher in my profile) The Abyss 13th Warrior(Which is William Wisher in my profile) That is what the problem is. So many iconsistancies. Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Then I misunderstood your post. Sorry about that | | |
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wow...5 pages in 3 hours.  A few points: Per Ken, citing the CLT is more than enough to make a change to a common name.Per Ken, proving that the two name refer to the same person is not required...unless there is some doubt.Per Ken, the person who has the doubt, must document that doubt. Simply saying, I have doubts, is not enough.The uncredited entry must always match the most commonly credited name, otherwise, what's the point?The fact that correcting one entry, will break linking with another, does not make the change incorrect.While not the intent, all this thread has done is illustrate the major flaws in our linking system. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | FWIW I think you're totally wrong and don't understand the Credited As system at all, Skip. Sorry.
Also..I've checked my profiles and can confirm the following:
William Wisher:
Die Hard 4.0
The Abyss
13th Warrior
Exorcist: The Beginning
Judge Dredd
Terminator= William Wisher, Jr.
This entire thread is another reason why I think (uncredited) is a total nightmare and strip them from most of my profiles and NEVER NEVER NEVER contribute them if I can help it.
Luckily I don't have William Wisher uncredited in T2 and have no intention of adding him. What I have done is change my Terminator entry to William Wisher (William Wisher, Jr.) to link with the above. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
A few points:
Per Ken, citing the CLT is more than enough to make a change to a common name.
Per Ken, proving that the two name refer to the same person is not required...unless there is some doubt.
Per Ken, the person who has the doubt, must document that doubt. Simply saying, I have doubts, is not enough.
The uncredited entry must always match the most commonly credited name, otherwise, what's the point?
The fact that correcting one entry, will break linking with another, does not make the change incorrect. Exactly! Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
What I have done is change my Terminator entry to William Wisher (William Wisher, Jr.) to link with the above. And that is indeed the only thing that Skip needs to do as well. There isn't anything more to all this than that. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree that the (unfortunately) pulled contribution was correct.
By definition, the name used in an uncredited entry must be what we call the common name. When there is no credit, there is no "credited as". It can't be made more clear than that.
If we don't use common names for uncredited, what do we use? The common name is the only possible reference point.
Profiler 101: There is no link between cast and crew names. There's no link to be broken. Regardless, as the Martian points out (and rephrased a bit), fixing one name to be correct is still correct even if it breaks a link to an incorrect name.
If you wanted to create the illusion of a link between cast and crew, you could contribute:
Crew: William Wisher [William Wisher, Jr.]
Cast: William Wisher (uncredited)
Also, this name points out that yes, sometimes (often) the raw CLT numbers contain so many bad entries that the actual most credited name is obscured. But we can only correct the situation by moving forward, not backward. We have T!M, Kluge and others leading us there. I'm thankful to them. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I agree that the (unfortunately) pulled contribution was correct. You got me worried there for a second, but as far as I can see, it's not pulled. I trust Kluge knows better than to bow to the misconceptions of one user - and I trust the screeners know better, too. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I agree that the (unfortunately) pulled contribution was correct.
You got me worried there for a second, but as far as I can see, it's not pulled. I trust Kluge knows better than to bow to the misconceptions of one user - and I trust the screeners know better, too. I was referring to Rick's (lyonsden5) contribution which was pulled. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I was referring to Rick's (lyonsden5) contribution which was pulled. Ah, sorry, misunderstood. Well, let's hope Rick reconsiders and tries again. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Additionally, by changinging William Wisher, Jr. to just William Wisher we "corrupt" a very importantant data concept; that he uses two DIFFERENT credits depending upon his work.
This would all be unnecessary if we were bnot trying toapply user-determined data. With a Simple Association system, such data would indeed be automatically recorded throughout the entire system once an association was made that William Wisher=William Wisher, Jr.=William Wisher jr. and we would maintain the significant piece of data that Wisher, Jr. applies to his acting credits..
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Additionally, by changinging William Wisher, Jr. to just William Wisher we "corrupt" a very importantant data concept; that he uses two DIFFERENT credits depending upon his work.
This would all be unnecessary if we were bnot trying toapply user-determined data. With a Simple Association system, such data would indeed be automatically recorded throughout the entire system once an association was made that William Wisher=William Wisher, Jr.=William Wisher jr. and we would maintain the significant piece of data that Wisher, Jr. applies to his acting credits..
Skip We don't use separate common names for cast and crew. Yes, if we had your Simple Association system, things would be different. But we don't. Let's deal with what is. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
This would all be unnecessary if we were bnot trying toapply user-determined data. With a Simple Association system [...] You're perfectly welcome to campaign for a different linking system. That is, however, quite something else as voting against an absolutely correct contribution, which is what you're doing. Quote:
Additionally, by changinging William Wisher, Jr. to just William Wisher we "corrupt" a very importantant data concept; that he uses two DIFFERENT credits depending upon his work. Also - not that it matters, but still - let me add that you're jumping to conclusions here. The man is credited throughout his career as "William Wisher". Among all his credits, there is one oddball occasion (his cast credit in 'The Terminator') where he's credited as "William Wisher, Jr." From that one credit, you're jumping to the "important data concept; that he uses two DIFFERENT credits depending upon his work". IMHO, you seem pretty sure about that on the basis of one single credit. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Wow...5 pages in 3 hours.
A few points:
[li]Per Ken, citing the CLT is more than enough to make a change to a common name.[/li]
Per Ken, proving that the two name refer to the same person is not required...unless there is some doubt.
Per Ken, the person who has the doubt, must document that doubt. Simply saying, I have doubts, is not enough.
The uncredited entry must always match the most commonly credited name, otherwise, what's the point?
The fact that correcting one entry, will break linking with another, does not make the change incorrect.
While not the intent, all this thread has done is illustrate the major flaws in our linking system. 1) I don't agree with that interpretation of Ken's comment 2) I never saw Ken make any such comment, that would be silly on its face. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Red herring: this has no bearing on anything whatsoever.
That may not be important to you, Tim But to some pf us it is every bit as important as linking, perhaps more so. So, I'll thank you to keep your belittling comments to yourself. Thank you.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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