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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Visual Effects <Company Name> |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
The next problem, How many localities are you going to repair on your own, to correct this massive problem that you perceive. None. In almost all cases, correct accentuation wins in present CLT. It is not true only when a common name thread is opened to add spelling mistakes where there are none (Andre Maranne thread for example). This is due to the fact that most contributions were made before Ken's clarification, and at that time, contributors, even in US, had no problem to use correct spelling, at least it is what show CLT results. My proposal saves time of contributors, not the contrary. | | | | Images from movies |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | So, how about those visual effects, huh?  |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
ç= in all cases and the converse is true Ç =ç. but according to actual use this is not necessarily the case. The French people in a lot of times, will not follow there own language grammar for proper capitalization of letters. This goes for è as well. How many other letters are Frenchmen not following proper grammar. And if the French do not want to follow their own grammar, how can you expect the rest of us to do so. It sounds like you need to clean up the problems in France first.
Sorry, but you are totally wrong. ç can be capitalised C, é can be capitalized E. And even if it is now recommanded in typography to use Ç and É since computers allow to do so, it is also correct to use C and E, as when we used typing machines, and it is what is done. In fact, in hand written language, upper case E has no equivalent as É.
I find it strange that you explain me what is correct spelling in French. When Madmartian explained me that "ignore" in English has not exactly the same meaning that "ignorer" in French, I said OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong, and did not try to explain you that the way you use the word "ignore" is not correct.
So there is nothing to clean in France. And how many credits were made before 1990 when no computer allowed Ç and É ? Wait a second, I did ask to correct if I was wrong.  But the underlying argument holds true 1+1 =2 but E might not be è And you only addressed 1 part of the post (apparently the part you took offense to. I am starting to believe that you read exactly what you want, without reading the whole statement. That doesn't make you ignorant, that makes you self centered (and you complain about us "Americans" I try to read over any post a couple of times before I respond. I do not like insulting people or taking things out of context, but if these are the games that you would like to play, I can play. How many of your past posts can I find the you misquoted, insulted, took out of context or put words into peoples mouth that they did not say.  I have tried to apologize anytime that I feel you have taken offense at something that was not intended. It is getting so that you are offended at everything. If you want to have a proper debate, there has to be certain rules. In those rules must be respect, and you show none. You can take this for what ever it is worth, but I tire of your insinuations and down right insulting attitude toward people that have a difference of opinion from you. You are right, everybody else is wrong, is that what you want.  Charlie |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
If Ken were to make this 1 change, would you then participate in the contributions completely? I contributed almost 50% of my collection. And I speak of totally new complete profiles (except for crew since at that time we had no so many possibilities than now). I have several profiles that do not exist at all in the database. I could easily contribute them and would be happy to do so (it would not take the 1/1000 of time I spent to share my gallery images), but I will never send information I know to be incorrect. So yes, if Ken changed this rule, I would submit the profiles that are not in the database. On another hand, since I hate dividers, I shall certainly not change a credit list without dividers to add them. But I saw nowhere that we should be obliged to contribute things we do not use. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM, four days ago Quote:
And while I can see Yves point in naming conventions, he has harped about the subject for as long as I can remember, insulting people along the way that don't agree with him. He even insults the owner of the program and the DB, because he will not make the change that he wants. This from a person that doesn't participate at all in the contribution process. Quoting CharlieM, today Quote:
I try to read over any post a couple of times before I respond. I do not like insulting people or taking things out of context, but if these are the games that you would like to play, I can play. How many of your past posts can I find the you misquoted, insulted, took out of context or put words into peoples mouth that they did not say. Feel better now ? If not, you can add some more tomorrow. As for me, I try to answer to each of your question the better I can in a language that is not mine to explain my point of view. If you find it insulting, I'm sorry, but I do not feel guilty at all. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Wait a second, I did ask to correct if I was wrong.
But the underlying argument holds true
1+1 =2 but E might not be è
And you only addressed 1 part of the post (apparently the part you took offense to. Why would I had answered to that ? Of course E might not be è, since I do not stop to explain that E means e, or é, or è, or ê. On this point we agree totally. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Wait a second, I did ask to correct if I was wrong.
But the underlying argument holds true
1+1 =2 but E might not be è
And you only addressed 1 part of the post (apparently the part you took offense to.
Why would I had answered to that ? Of course E might not be è, since I do not stop to explain that E means e, or é, or è, or ê. On this point we agree totally. But you started the math analogy of 1+1=2 which is a given. I told you math analogies and grammar do not work in any language. Charlie |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
So, how about those visual effects, huh? Apologies. Needs top close and move to another thread to continue (if necessary) or to reopen one of the many already in progress. As far as visual effects, the rule wording needs to change, so that we do not include computer technicians in the mass list of "visual effects" in a general sense. my idea Visual/Digital/Special/Special Visual/Photographic Effects (Designer, Supervisor, or Director) This would eliminate a few otherwise valid VFX Supervisors, but would eliminate the long list of general vfx/sfc crew under a general heading. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
1+1 =2 but E might not be è What's worse: even the other way round isn't always correct. é might not be a capital E, otherwise this " È" wouldn't make any sense, so as long as the capital E with a gravis is part of the default letter set I will vehemently continue to disagree with surfeur. The so often repeated statement of surfeur that there is no È is simply not true, it can be used and if it isn't used this might have happened accidentally or on purpose, but it's not up to us to decide this. We enter what we see and from this results a common name either with gravis or without, whatever is used more often. PERIOD. The same is correct for Ç / ç and other French special letters too. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
The so often repeated statement of surfeur that there is no È is simply not true, it can be used ... Do you read what I write, instead of inventing my "statements" ? Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
ç can be capitalised C, é can be capitalized E. And even if it is now recommanded in typography to use Ç and É since computers allow to do so, it is also correct to use C and E, as when we used typing machines, and it is what is done You may disagree with my opinion, but please do not lie blatantly about what I write. But you can nothing about this fact: Gérard LANVIN (as credited) is Gérard Lanvin in the database. GERARD LANVIN (as credited) is Gerard Lanvin in the database, per Ken's clarification. Though Gérard LANVIN and GERARD LANVIN are both correct, and concern the same person, application of rules breaks the linking, which is not good for anybody. And if you want to use "credited as" feature and CLT, you'll have to make the same research than for entering directly the correct Gérard Lanvin for GERARD LANVIN on screen. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
ç=Ç in all cases and the converse is true Ç =ç. but according to actual use this is not necessarily the case. The French people in a lot of times, will not follow there own language grammar for proper capitalization of letters. This goes for è as well. How many other letters are Frenchmen not following proper grammar. And if the French do not want to follow their own grammar, how can you expect the rest of us to do so. It sounds like you need to clean up the problems in France first. American English has so many exceptions to grammar rules it's not even funny. There are not only exceptions to the rules, there are exceptions to the exceptions. I find your statement arrogant, insulting, and even somewhat racist. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
ç=Ç in all cases and the converse is true Ç =ç. but according to actual use this is not necessarily the case. The French people in a lot of times, will not follow there own language grammar for proper capitalization of letters. This goes for è as well. How many other letters are Frenchmen not following proper grammar. And if the French do not want to follow their own grammar, how can you expect the rest of us to do so. It sounds like you need to clean up the problems in France first.
American English has so many exceptions to grammar rules it's not even funny. There are not only exceptions to the rules, there are exceptions to the exceptions.
I find your statement arrogant, insulting, and even somewhat racist. That's nice... I have never said American English is any saint. As a matter of fact, since it really is a hybrid of many languages, it has the ill effects of most and not very many good traits about it. I can understand that, and I deal with it on a very real level everyday, with the many different people from many different backgrounds that I have to deal with. By the way Racist - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. There are only five races on the planet. I do not believe this discussion has anything to do with the differences between races. So I take very much offense being called a racist or even the implication that I may have put forth a racist statement. As far as arrogant, I have been called worse, I would call arrogance the belief that your opinion matters more than anybody else. And considering, I have stated I can get behind a rule change as long as the basis for the rule is something that everybody can follow. Yves on the other hand feels that it should be his way or no way. He has argued for the same thing time and time again, and injects it into every topic in any forum that he can. He assumes that Ken (the owner/programmer) doesn't understand or doesn't care (his words not mine), or that since people don't agree with him that they are more concerned with their contribution numbers instead of accuracy. He keeps insisting that there are errors or incorrect entries in the DB, even though the entries are following the rules. Tell me what arrogance is. I asked for him to correct me if I was wrong (apparently you conveniently missed that statement also) I never expressed that I was all knowing about French, and was promptly corrected about it (although in what I would call a snotty tone, though that may have been just a language barrier).. I will state this once more so you can understand this. I can get behind a rule change for diacritical and language nuances as long as the basis for that rule is such that 100% of the people can follow without hesitation and without unnecessary research into a language that the contributor may or may not know. The change from that basis should be documented, and the burden of proof should be on the person wanting to make that change. This has been my stance from day one, if this is arrogance, then I can't help you. The rule that was proposed, made the opposite true. Now since this was originally a discussion about VFX personnel, and I already have apologized for the off track this discussion took, I suggest that we get back on subject or close this thread. Charlie | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I can get behind a rule change for diacritical and language nuances as long as the basis for that rule is such that 100% of the people can follow without hesitation and without unnecessary research into a language that the contributor may or may not know. The change from that basis should be documented, and the burden of proof should be on the person wanting to make that change.
This has been my stance from day one, if this is arrogance, then I can't help you.
The rule that was proposed, made the opposite true.
The two last proposals, written by Antolod, were: A If the Cast, Crew or Role names are presented in all upper or lower case type, convert them to mixed case using "E=e, É=é" following the standard capitalization rules of the language of the text being converted. Diacritical marks for non-English-language names and roles may be used to preserve their proper spelling.B If the Cast, Crew or Role names are presented in all upper or lower case type, convert them to mixed case preserving their proper spelling and following the standard capitalization rules of the language of the text being converted. If you are unfamiliar with the proper conversion, "E=e, É=é" may be used and can be corrected by subsequent contributions. Both meets your requirements, and did not at all "make the opposite true" I wrote that I would be happy with both of them (though I prefer the second). You were against both of them, though an American user can fill a French profile "without hesitation and without unnecessary research" in both cases. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 71 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's time for some of you to make your own thread. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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