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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ...9  Previous   Next
The continued drama we call "parsing": Ellen Albertini Dow
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting hal9g:
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Between the Wikipedia article and the newspaper article, I consider that to be sufficient evidence.

It's nice to know that you feel that way, but the fact remains that under pretty much the exact same circumstances, but with an actual hyphenated credit thrown in, Invelos still ruled 1/2/3.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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Just use the system and the tools that we have. Simple.

I do. Haven't I explained this? I "use the system and the tools that we have", and I get no-votes. I get no-votes both ways, whether I use E/A/D or E//A D. No-votes in both cases, that's my only problem here. Simple, indeed. Me telling those voters to "use the system and the tools that we have" isn't going to make those votes disappear, is it?

For the record, I'll state my personal preference again. My personal preference would be to put anything that isn't a first or a given name into the last name field. Unfortunately, that's not common practice around here, and the only guidance from Invelos on the matter is a ruling on how to parse Elaine Corral Kendall (E/C/K, despite a confirmed hyphenated credit). That ruling, as far as I can tell, applies here as well. If anything, we had a more substantial reason to go with E//C K there, in the form of an actual hyphenated credit in the database. Still, even with that, Invelos ruled E/C/K. Apparently, per Invelos, we need more than an actual hyphenated credit. And I certainly don't see anything like that.

Again, I'd be happy to go with Ellen//Albertini Dow, but then I'd want to go back and use Philip//Baker Hall and Elaine//Corral Kendall as well: the arguments to do so are certainly exactly the same. But again: in the case of Elaine Corral Kendall Invelos explicitly ruled against that. That ruling tells me something about this case - which is pretty much exactly the same - as well.

I'm not looking for the "whim of the day" here, and this is not about my personal preference (on the contrary!). This thread doesn't ask what you'd LIKE to do, but what we should do for contribution purposes. And for contribution purposes, we've got an Invelos ruling on E/C/K to consider, and so when the circumstances are the same - and here they are - then, for contribution purposes, I make the same call, whether I like it or not.


Since names are unique, I do not believe that Invelos was making a universal "ruling" with the E/C/K incident.  As with anything, if evidence can be provided to support one parsing method over another, then that's what should be entered for each individual case.  Using the 1/2/3 method, would be forcing us to enter incorrect information into the database, and I seriously doubt that Invelos wants knowingly bad data entered!
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting hal9g:
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Since names are unique, I do not believe that Invelos was making a universal "ruling" with the E/C/K incident.  As with anything, if evidence can be provided to support one parsing method over another, then that's what should be entered for each individual case.

I agree. However, that E/C/K ruling does tell us something about the level of "evidence" that Invelos apparently requires to deviate from 1/2/3. And this time, there's decidedly less "evidence" than we had back then, when there was an actual hyphenated credit to consider. But even that wasn't enough for Invelos, and this time we've got nothing remotely so substantial. As such, I don't see how things would play out any different here.

May I ask how you feel about Philip Baker Hall?
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting hal9g:
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Since names are unique, I do not believe that Invelos was making a universal "ruling" with the E/C/K incident.  As with anything, if evidence can be provided to support one parsing method over another, then that's what should be entered for each individual case.

I agree. However, that E/C/K ruling does tell us something about the level of "evidence" that Invelos apparently requires to deviate from 1/2/3. And this time, there's decidedly less "evidence" than we had back then, when there was an actual hyphenated credit to consider. But even that wasn't enough for Invelos, and this time we've got nothing remotely so substantial. As such, I don't see how things would play out any different here.

May I ask how you feel about Philip Baker Hall?


I  haven't researched it, so I have no opinion at the moment.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
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A quick search indicates Philip/Baker/Hall.  Every article I looked at referred to him as "Hall", not "Baker Hall".
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
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Since the online parsing does not overwrite the local, why do we worry so much about this? Whatever we put in the online is not spread around anyway.
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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True... but unfortunately that don't stop people from voting no when there is a parsing change they don't agree with. So as long as that is the case it remains a problem we pretty much have to worry about.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting Staid S Barr:
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Since the online parsing does not overwrite the local, why do we worry so much about this?

In short: because, when contributing cast/crew data, the local parsing does overwrite the online.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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True... but unfortunately that don't stop people from voting no when there is a parsing change they don't agree with. So as long as that is the case it remains a problem we pretty much have to worry about.

Pete is right: that, and only that is what this is about. I am, of course, fully aware that there's nothing to worry about as far as my local database is concerned. The issue is that when contributing cast data, I get no-votes about the parsing of this particular name. And the best part is that I got no-votes either way: some users oppose E/A/D, others oppose E//A D. If only the contribution system would be able to ignore parsing differences, then this wouldn't pose a problem anymore.

Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
A quick search indicates Philip/Baker/Hall.  Every article I looked at referred to him as "Hall", not "Baker Hall".

But that applies to Ellen Albertini Dow as well. Example here. She is consistently referred to as "Dow". "Dow says", "Dow bears little resemblance", "as Dow delicately puts it", "says Dow", and so on. So again, I don't see the difference. 
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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I am still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me what relevance  how any given name is parsed has to this program. The answer is none at all and therefore the entire discussion is ridiculous on its face. Whether it is Baker/Hall or Baker Hall, Albertini/Dow or Albertini Dow means absolutely zero to this program. Plus like I said, in spite of all of its flaws, we do have a tool, that will function properly if instead of engaging in these mindless debates and they are mindless simply follow the data On Screen, if a credit say Baker Hall then enter it, if it says Baker/Hall then enter that and use the CLT. These discussions are merely a way to subvert the use of the tool that we have been provided. Like I said, hal, it is flawed and I would not have implemented it in its current form. Any TOOL that is completely dependent on  each and every user simply following the Rules and the data to provide an accurate result, thus getting a user defined Common Name, will always be under threat if not doomed. But it is preciely this kind of silliness the tool could and SHOULD prevent.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
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Tim:

I knoiw that you do follow the Rules, even though I have a few beefs with you. But the point remains that the parsing is totally irrelevant, simply follow the data and the Rules. Then let the Tool do its job.
Like I said according to the one credit you copied Baker Hall is the correct parsing for that person on that particular film. The next credit might be Baker/Hall and still others might read Baker-Hall. These are simply multiple variations of a name for the SAME person and that is exactly what the Tool was allegedly designed for. So just follow the data, my friend. On the basis of what I have seen weKNOW that Albertini was her maiden name, and that beyond she married someone named Dow, seems to me for this particular credit the likelihood would Albertini/Dow but the next one might Albertini Dow or even Albertini-Dow. DSoes that mean we should change them all, of course not, that is not what the data says. But our tool gives us, in theory, a way to tie them all together.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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The answer to these endless questions is clear and obvious. Don't worry about it, it means nothing to the Program, as has been proven by all of YOU who have not been able to answer the question. Simply follow the Rulles, the data and the Clt can do the rest, that IS what it is for, no matter how flawed I personally think it is, the flaw is more in users ignoring the data and the Rules or creating their own interpretations as some are want to do, than it is the implementation of the tool.

We are taking something that is incredibly easy and making it difficult beyond belief, something I might add that Profiler users are infamous for.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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But the point remains that the parsing is totally irrelevant, simply follow the data and the Rules.

As explained earlier: I did that. No problem there, really. My only problem was that, even though I "followed the data and the rules", my contributions drew no-votes purely based on the parsing of this actress' name. So irrelevant as the parsing may be, it still causes people to hand out no-votes. Better yet: this one managed to draw no-votes no matter how I parsed it. So yes, I've "followed the data and the rules", but I still get no-votes. That, and only that, is why parsing is still a problem. No matter how I parsed this name, I could not contribute a cast update without at least one person objecting. That's my problem.

Anyway: not that I'd ever claim that a random screener decision really meant anything, but I can report that Invelos has just now accepted the current contribution I had pending with Ms. Dow in it - it's now Ellen/Albertini/Dow, despite a no-vote. As stated before, I felt this was inevitable given Invelos's earlier Elaine/Corral/Kendall ruling.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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Quoting T!M:
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If a confirmed hyphenated credit wasn't enough to swing the parsing there, then why would a mixed case/full case credit make a difference now?

Yes, a mixed case/full case credit would be a given parsing by the film makers.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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As I have said repeatedly on this issue. (...) So simply follow the data (...)

As other people have pointed out many times, that with parsing you usually can't simply follow the data except in those cases where the film makers have given their parsing themselves (e.g. with a font change). Otherwise there is no default parsing of multi word names.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
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Quoting T!M:
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For those that want to rely on a single mixed case/full case credit to "seal the deal", I'd like to repeat my earlier question: since when does that matter? Says who? It certainly doesn't matter to Invelos, since in the Elaine Corral Kendall example I quoted earlier, we even had a hyphenated Elaine Corral-Kendall credit, and Invelos still ruled that we parse it as E/C/K. How is this any different?

Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below) that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?



OMG T!M THAT PICTURE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH DOCUMENTATION STOP SHOVING YOUR CULTURE DOWN MY THROAT AND INTO THE INVELOS DATABASE!!1!1!!1111!11111!


Can you ever add anything of apositive nature to any discussion. Answer...NO, beyond your capabilities. Sorry, bud.




Sorry I don't bring the hate, ignorance and lies like you do.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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And wouldn't even argue about that if the surname field defaults on last word and is local only.

Last word? Like jr?
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