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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 3 4 5 6 7 ...9  Previous   Next
The continued drama we call "parsing": Ellen Albertini Dow
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting T!M:
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Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below, from 'In Good Company') that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?


Very good example. Until Invelos rules that a graphically layout credit like this still has to be parsed as P/B/H instead of P//B H, we are not stuck with P/B/H and I would clearly enter P//B H.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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I have to ask about this. Why would it require surname fixes locally, what relevance does the surname or parsing actually have to THIS program. (...)

With that logic you should actually support a single name field without any local or not surname field.

That's what I'd prefer, a simple single name field and drop sorting by surname.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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I am still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me what relevance  how any given name is parsed has to this program.

This has been answered many times. But since you choose to ignore the answer, people are getting tired explaining.
Quote:
The answer is none at all and therefore the entire discussion is ridiculous on its face.

Wrong answer.

EDIT: You can find one part of the answer in my previous post.
 Last edited: by RHo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGrendell
One disc at a time...
Registered: May 8, 2007
United States Posts: 823
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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And BTW the meager documentation provided by Hal, sorry Hal, proves nothing beyond the last name she was born with. It does not support his references to Albertini Dow. Further she is an American actress so unlike some countries there is no Rule or even law that dictates preseuptiously how a woman MUST parse her last name. That is her choice, and I see no documentation that supports a double barrelled last name, it is a possibility but it is NOT a GIVEN.


Documentation was provided, so you are trolling. Period.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
I aim to misbehave
Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting RHo:
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Quoting T!M:
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Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below, from 'In Good Company') that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?


Very good example. Until Invelos rules that a graphically layout credit like this still has to be parsed as P/B/H instead of P//B H, we are not stuck with P/B/H and I would clearly enter P//B H.

From the credits of Hard Eight (aka Sydney) a film in which PBH was the star:

Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting xradman:
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In this press clipping from her official website, her name is listed as Ellen Albertini-Dow.

Maybe i missed it but has anyone noted that three of the five articles on Ms. Dow's web site refer to her as Dow?

The fifth is a broken link.
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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There is no way for us to know what the correct parsing of a name is based on the DVD credits.

The only definitive answer would be to contact the Cast/Crew member or their representative and ask them what the correct parsing is.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting tweeter:
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Quoting xradman:
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In this press clipping from her official website, her name is listed as Ellen Albertini-Dow.

Maybe i missed it but has anyone noted that three of the five articles on Ms. Dow's web site refer to her as Dow?

The fifth is a broken link.

I don't know how to explain it exactly, but somethings are true even if all instances don't necessarily agree with it.  For her last name to be Dow, she must be always referred to as Dow only.  If she is even once referred to correctly as Albertini-Dow, then that must be her true last name.  Does that make sense?
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
In this press clipping from her official website, her name is listed as Ellen Albertini-Dow.

Maybe i missed it but has anyone noted that three of the five articles on Ms. Dow's web site refer to her as Dow?

The fifth is a broken link.

I don't know how to explain it exactly, but somethings are true even if all instances don't necessarily agree with it.  For her last name to be Dow, she must be always referred to as Dow only.  If she is even once referred to correctly as Albertini-Dow, then that must be her true last name.  Does that make sense?


No that makes no sense at all... you are saying people can be mistaken one way... but no one could ever be mistaken (not even once!) the other way. Sorry... the world just don't work that way. In the real world people can make mistakes (almost no matter how close they are to the person) either way. It is too much in human nature to make mistakes.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
In this press clipping from her official website, her name is listed as Ellen Albertini-Dow.

Maybe i missed it but has anyone noted that three of the five articles on Ms. Dow's web site refer to her as Dow?

The fifth is a broken link.

I don't know how to explain it exactly, but somethings are true even if all instances don't necessarily agree with it.  For her last name to be Dow, she must be always referred to as Dow only.  If she is even once referred to correctly as Albertini-Dow, then that must be her true last name.  Does that make sense?

Nope, makes no sense at all.  By that logic most every film Ms. Dow has done has incorrect credits, as well as her own website.
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below, from 'In Good Company') that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?


Very good example. Until Invelos rules that a graphically layout credit like this still has to be parsed as P/B/H instead of P//B H, we are not stuck with P/B/H and I would clearly enter P//B H.

From the credits of Hard Eight (aka Sydney) a film in which PBH was the star:


Tweeter are you suggesting that the two credits you showed are from the same film. That could definitely lead to confusion. Otherwise you simply have different name variant's for the SAME poerson in different films, something we see very frequently
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
In this press clipping from her official website, her name is listed as Ellen Albertini-Dow.

Maybe i missed it but has anyone noted that three of the five articles on Ms. Dow's web site refer to her as Dow?

The fifth is a broken link.

I don't know how to explain it exactly, but somethings are true even if all instances don't necessarily agree with it.  For her last name to be Dow, she must be always referred to as Dow only.  If she is even once referred to correctly as Albertini-Dow, then that must be her true last name.  Does that make sense?


No it doesn't xradman, people are free in this country to change the handling of their names almost at will. They are simply variants, nothing more m, nothing less and that is why we have the Tool...to deal with name variants. Several years ago I found 3 different credits scattered over several years for HBC. In order they said HB-C, HBC and HB-C again. Properly handled under the CLT you have two name variants linked for Most Commonly Used Name variant. Simple.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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Tweeter are you suggesting that the two credits you showed are from the same film. That could definitely lead to confusion. Otherwise you simply have different name variant's for the SAME poerson in different films, something we see very frequently

I am not suggesting they are from the same film, they are not.  As i noted my image is from Hard Eight's closing credits while the prior was from In Good Company.

I was simply showing an example where PBH is directly referred to by his last name.  No additional context required.

On the other hand the In Good Company credit doesn't explain anything.  Perhaps the credit designers wanted everyone's credit to have "standard" font first name and bold for the rest of their name, without seeing all the names credited that way you can't draw any conclusions, and even if you saw all the credits done in this style you might not be able to draw any conclusions about parsing.
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting hal9g:
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A quick search indicates Philip/Baker/Hall.  Every article I looked at referred to him as "Hall", not "Baker Hall".

But that applies to Ellen Albertini Dow as well. Example here. She is consistently referred to as "Dow". "Dow says", "Dow bears little resemblance", "as Dow delicately puts it", "says Dow", and so on. So again, I don't see the difference. 


Well, that article does throw some doubt on the parsing.  We now have two sources that indicate "Albertini Dow" and one that indicates "Dow".  Based on that I'd still go with "Albertini Dow" as the surname.  If you have additional sources, please post them.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Winston Smith:
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I am still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me what relevance  how any given name is parsed has to this program. The answer is none at all and therefore the entire discussion is ridiculous on its face. Whether it is Baker/Hall or Baker Hall, Albertini/Dow or Albertini Dow means absolutely zero to this program. Plus like I said, in spite of all of its flaws, we do have a tool, that will function properly if instead of engaging in these mindless debates and they are mindless simply follow the data On Screen, if a credit say Baker Hall then enter it, if it says Baker/Hall then enter that and use the CLT. These discussions are merely a way to subvert the use of the tool that we have been provided. Like I said, hal, it is flawed and I would not have implemented it in its current form. Any TOOL that is completely dependent on  each and every user simply following the Rules and the data to provide an accurate result, thus getting a user defined Common Name, will always be under threat if not doomed. But it is preciely this kind of silliness the tool could and SHOULD prevent.


I've already answered this, but you seem to want to ignore it.  The surname determines how the actor list is sorted when you are searching for an actor name to enter in a profile.  If her surname is "Dow" then it will appear in the "D's".  If her surname is "Albertini Dow", then it appears in the "A's".  If the only name in the actor list is 'Ellen/Albertini/Dow', and I enter "Ellen Dow" in the search box when trying to enter her, the program will not find her. That's just the way the search function works!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below, from 'In Good Company') that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?


Very good example. Until Invelos rules that a graphically layout credit like this still has to be parsed as P/B/H instead of P//B H, we are not stuck with P/B/H and I would clearly enter P//B H.


This would be P//BH for "As Credited", but the common name would still be P/B/H, since there are many more instances of the latter in the CLT.  And since the "As Credited" is not actually parsed, it will have no impact on the CLT.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
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