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Quoted posts should reflect edits.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaNDarD
Registered: March 31, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I feel that quoted posts should reflect the edits that are subsequently applied to the post.


Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I feel that quoted posts should reflect the edits that are subsequently applied to the post. [...] There are many cases where obsolete versions of posts live on long after authors have amended the original statements.

What about those? I do those kind of quotes on a regular basis...


Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Quoting andy$:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
This is a useful thread, and I learned some things. Request to the parties: could you please remove the vulgar bits? Would be a shame to see this thread closed. Thanks.


My original post now edited. Cheers.

A very civil and welcome gesture. The quoted post is still around, but everyone can see your true intention to be a good sport. My regards.

What about this? This is a quote of a quote of a quote. And additionally it's not even from this thread.


What you ask about is that with every edit on one posting each and every posting ever made (theoretically I can edit an old posting to contain a quote of a newer one) has to be checked for a (partly) quote of it.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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Quoting StaNDarD:
Quote:
What you ask about is that with every edit on one posting each and every posting ever made (theoretically I can edit an old posting to contain a quote of a newer one) has to be checked for a (partly) quote of it.

No way .... I am absolutely not asking for any changes to the edit posting window! I don't know what it is, but I think we get a few hours or so. By request, it is possible to get the ability to edit old posts of technical information, such as in the plugins forum, in order to edit user instructions, product features, etc.

All I proposed was, in the case where a post was edited, within the existing allowed window, that the edited post be propagated automatically. And I also pointed out that there is an example of that already in the posts linked to on the reputation page.

But, and this makes my point ... I have since modified my view based on the discussion, because I liked the approach that Addicted2DVD pointed out. But rather than reading the thread, my original post is still being quoted, even after my thinking has moved on. And one guy has even fabricated a fictitious post and attributed it to me, intentionally adding to the confusion.

After all this, I am leaning towards allowing no edits whatsoever (except for technical info by request). Even then, it is still possible for people to abuse quoting by fraudulently editing the quoted contents (this should result in suspension or banning.).
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaNDarD
Registered: March 31, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
All I proposed was, in the case where a post was edited, within the existing allowed window, that the edited post be propagated automatically. And I also pointed out that there is an example of that already in the posts linked to on the reputation page.

But that's completely different. On the reputation page the posts are linked. In quotes they're not.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Quoting StaNDarD:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
All I proposed was, in the case where a post was edited, within the existing allowed window, that the edited post be propagated automatically. And I also pointed out that there is an example of that already in the posts linked to on the reputation page.

But that's completely different. On the reputation page the posts are linked. In quotes they're not.

Correct. Didn't think of that until late last night.

But it also had not occurred to me that quotes could be hacked, so the only way to know what a person really said is to view the original post directly, or via a link. A nefarious quoter can manufacture any quote, spoof another user, etc. And once you've been spoofed, it feels like somebody stole your credit card.
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Correct. Didn't think of that until late last night.

But it also had not occurred to me that quotes could be hacked, so the only way to know what a person really said is to view the original post directly, or via a link. A nefarious quoter can manufacture any quote, spoof another user, etc. And once you've been spoofed, it feels like somebody stole your credit card.


But the quoted person can always refer to their original post, showing that they were deliberately misquoted.

On the other hand with your system, a quoter would have no chance to prove that the quotee changed his original statement to something else.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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@DJ,  don't get what system you are talking about. I have long since abandoned the original proposal. But you have to read the thread, where I have stated it at least twice. Somehow people are continuing to read somebody else's interpretation of my post. Go back and read the original. All I said was that we should preserve the original, even when quoted, as edited by the original author. Simple as that. If the editing policy is changed to no edits - fine, but today we have a small editing window, like it or not.

Instead, we have a system where any person can quote any other person, real or imagined, and make them say anything, real or ficticious. We have one copy of the original post, and multiple, possibly altered versions , throughout the thread. I prefer not to have to police every thread in every forum to check if I have been misquoted.
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I prefer not to have to police every thread in every forum to check if I have been misquoted.

Ask Ken to make misquoting against the rules and then ban offenders.

---------------
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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@scotthm, Good point. I just read the rules and sure enough, impersonation of another user is not explicitly prohibited (unless I missed it on my quick reading).
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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My Original Statement:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I feel that quoted posts should reflect the edits that are subsequently applied to the post. This is the way it works on the reputation page, but not in the regular forums. There are many cases where obsolete versions of posts live on long after authors have amended the original statements.


Alternate Proposal, based on discussion:

  • - Add to the Forum Rules, an explicit prohibition of Impersonation of Another User

  • - Add to the Forum Rules an explicit prohibition of Misrepresentation of Another User by altering the contents of a quoted post (excerpts allowed)

  • - Reduce the period of time that a post can be edited - up to, but not after a subsequent post is made in the same thread. Exceptions by request to Invelos (e.g. pinned informational threads).

  • - Replace the existing blockquote mechanism with a linkquote mechanism. The quoted post post does not appear as clear text and cannot be edited by the quoter, but is instead rendered by the Forum Software, so that it displays much the way it displays today. What you see when editing, would be something like [linkquote start=123 length=155]post link[/linkquote]. When rendered however, the linkquote would look pretty much like today's blockquote.


  • This way, all orginal posts live on, without revision and less disk space is needed to carry multiole copies and embeds of prior posts.

    How's that? 
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
    I see better with 'em on
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:

    Notwithstanding the kneejerk reaction some made about my presumed desire for censorship, this has actually been one of my hot buttons for a long time. It was just recently rekindled.

    To restate what I am really getting at, is that quoted posts should reflect what the author has said, even as modified. You only have a small window, and only the author can do it. If an author chooses to modify a post, why should the old versions live on forever? That is really my only point. Has nothing to do with censorship.


    I just saw this... I was joking, hence the  I didn't think that was what you were advocating, my apologies.

    I see why you would want this, but in most cases when people quote something it's because they want to respond to it, and if it gets changed then their posts would be out of context.
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    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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    Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
    Quote:
    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:

    Notwithstanding the kneejerk reaction some made about my presumed desire for censorship, this has actually been one of my hot buttons for a long time. It was just recently rekindled.

    To restate what I am really getting at, is that quoted posts should reflect what the author has said, even as modified. You only have a small window, and only the author can do it. If an author chooses to modify a post, why should the old versions live on forever? That is really my only point. Has nothing to do with censorship.


    I just saw this... I was joking, hence the  I didn't think that was what you were advocating, my apologies.

    I see why you would want this, but in most cases when people quote something it's because they want to respond to it, and if it gets changed then their posts would be out of context.

    No harm done. Regarding quoting out of context, please see my prior post. Just because somebody uses blockquote, doesn't mean that you are seeing the actual original post. See a few posts back, when I was intentionally misrepresented, to make a point. If you commented on that post, it would be in context, but the context would be illicit.
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    My Original Statement:
    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    I feel that quoted posts should reflect the edits that are subsequently applied to the post. This is the way it works on the reputation page, but not in the regular forums. There are many cases where obsolete versions of posts live on long after authors have amended the original statements.


    Alternate Proposal, based on discussion:

  • - Add to the Forum Rules, an explicit prohibition of Impersonation of Another User

  • - Add to the Forum Rules an explicit prohibition of Misrepresentation of Another User by altering the contents of a quoted post (excerpts allowed)

  • - Reduce the period of time that a post can be edited - up to, but not after a subsequent post is made in the same thread. Exceptions by request to Invelos (e.g. pinned informational threads).

  • - Replace the existing blockquote mechanism with a linkquote mechanism. The quoted post post does not appear as clear text and cannot be edited by the quoter, but is instead rendered by the Forum Software, so that it displays much the way it displays today. What you see when editing, would be something like [linkquote start=123 length=155]post link[/linkquote]. When rendered however, the linkquote would look pretty much like today's blockquote.


  • This way, all orginal posts live on, without revision and less disk space is needed to carry multiole copies and embeds of prior posts.

    How's that? 


    The only problem I see with such a thing is that way we would have to quote the entire post when it may not be needed. There has been many times that I would be replying to just the final (or one of the) paragraph in a large post... so would trim off the unnecessary paragraphs (that could easily be about something else.

    Like if a person asks three questions... and I only have the answer for one of them I would only quote the one question.
    Pete
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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    For example someone could post...

    I have a few questions....

    1. Question about titles
    2. Question about overviews
    3. Question about Crew
    4. Question about Studios

    And my reply I only have one answer... So I would want to only quote the one question...

    Quote:
    2. Question about overviews

    Answer to Question

    And if I am reading you correctly I don't think I could do that... could I?
    Pete
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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    @Addicted2DVD, you are talking about implementation. The requirement would obviously be to be able to designate an excerpt.

    My example was:  [linkquote start=123 length=155]post link[/linkquote], where the start character position and length are encoded. How this would actually be done is implementation, and up to Invelos.

    For example, click on the linkquote icon, and get the quote displayed in a way you can highlight the excerpt.

    Or you could build the control manually. Bottom line, yes, being able to excerpt is definitely required.
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    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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    As long as that ability is there then I am all for it. 
    Pete
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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    Quoting Addicted2DVD:
    Quote:
    As long as that ability is there then I am all for it. 

    Cool. I will submit a trouble ticket to request Invelos to take a look at this thread for ideas. (Done).
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
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