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    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
DVD Profiler User Base?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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Out of curiosity, has the user base shrunk? I've notice the last year or so that I've been getting a lot more content that I have to enter myself, especially for box sets and collections. Maybe I'm just unlucky.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributoreommen
DVD nerd
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Hard to tell. Some years ago Invelos claimed DVDp had millions of users, but the site doesn't provide actuals. With only a one-time fee it is harder to tell if someone abandons the product.
The only way to find out by Invelos is to monitor how many different users regularly update their database with the "Refresh Updates Profiles" option. But a diminishing user count is not something any company likes to advertise... The one thing I do see the people on the fora are by and large the same (fairly small) group of people throughout the years.

Can't tell for Canada but for UK profiles --as I do import a lot from the UK-- the volume of fast available profiles just after release dropped sharply after one or two very regular contributors were diverting their attention to other hobbies. And it hasn't been supplanted by others AFAIK.

Which means that the on-line database content depends a lot more on just a few contributors than you might imagine.
Eric

If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak.
 Last edited: by eommen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting eommen:
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Which means that the on-line database content depends a lot more on just a few contributors than you might imagine.

It does, yeah. Well, sales of physical media aren't exactly skyrocketing - that's bound to have an effect. Other than that, I find that Invelos doesn't exactly seem to focus on helping contributors, on making the contribution system as easy and accessible to everyone as it could possibly be - which, being a user-built database, seems pretty important.

This should start with supplying a simple set of hard and fast contribution rules, not the multi-interpretable mess we have now, and ensuring that those rules are followed by everyone (i.e. not just approving anything that didn't get a no-vote). Instead, dozens and dozens of simple "yes or no" questions are never answered, with the userbase thoroughly divided on them. As a frequent and longtime contributor, that's the area where I frequently feel "let down" by Invelos. Contributing has become more work than it should be, because there are so many "grey areas" to contend with. More often than you'd think, I find myself having to save a copy of my "correct" data, make some changes to match a couple of "controversial" aspects of the data to match whatever's in the database (often it's "first one in wins") and only then be able to contribute the necessary changes - and then reinstate my own set of data. I can't help wondering why I even bother to go through that ordeal, and I can't imagine many other users would go to the same amount of trouble. To make this easier, large parts of the rules need to be tightened, anything that's being interpreted in different ways needs to be locked down, some debates that have been running for years on end need to be settled. I can't help thinking that if Ken spent just a couple of hours on the rules, things could improve dramatically.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting eommen:
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Which means that the on-line database content depends a lot more on just a few contributors than you might imagine.

Many people who were used to contribute in the past have stopped when rules asked to recopy errors, and in certain cases, asked to add errors (especially spelling mistakes in names). People who want to have correct profiles, and also want to contribute, have to build profiles with incorrect data, then correct them for their own database.
So what did, in fact, people who want to have correct profiles ? They just stopped contributing...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorEagle
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting 69samael69:
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Out of curiosity, has the user base shrunk? I've notice the last year or so that I've been getting a lot more content that I have to enter myself, especially for box sets and collections. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

I've noticed it as well. But, then again, my free time has seemed to disappear over the past year or so as well. Not only do I not have time to contribute, but it's also taking me several weeks just to simply enter new purchases into the program (something that I used to do on day or purchase). Others may very well be in a similar situation to mine.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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That's kind of what I was thinking, whether we lost a couple of the primary contributors here in Canada. Makes me sad to think it relies on so few people. I also think we may have lost some of these hard core users just this last year with the LONG delay in getting 4K support out. It certainly felt like an abandoned product for a while and I really did find it hard to recommend it to people.

I haven't been doing it long, maybe 2 years since I started doing regular contributions, so I only have a couple hundred, but that would probably be 80% new profiles. I have looked at other tools, but they tend to be expensive and last time I did comparisons, their databases seemed no more complete, at least for what I collect. Like some others here, I've been using DVDP since version 1.0 I think, back in the Intervocative days.

I hear ya on the rules, clear direction on some things would be nice. I know Ken is basically a one man show, and he's not charging very much for the software, so we can't expect a great deal of support, but not maintaining this stuff or not making decision on contentious issues isn't doing anyone any good. Does Ken do all the document maintenance himself? What does the "Contribution Rules Committee" do? I, personally, would like to see a minimum set of required data. (I'm an Oracle DBA by profession and these empty contributions drive me up the wall.) The thing I care about most are the visual aspects, things like cover scans, features, rating, technical details, etc. should be required, otherwise the profile automatically rejected. I'll admit, I'm guilty of never doing cast/crew myself. If I can't copy another profile, I leave it blank. I do everything else, but the rules surrounding the sourcing of cast/crew information just make it too time consuming. My wife would have my head. I understand why the rules are there, but I just don't usually have that kind of time.

As you say, it is tedious and time consuming though. I think it took me 40 minutes to do that Paranormal Activity box set (So, 7 new profiles) last night and most of the technical information was already correct in the profiles I chose to copy. Would have taken much longer if I had to enter all the technical details such as audio tracks and special features. I don't know what the answer is or how to better streamline things, but there are things in the software itself that make me scratch my head, like why changing region/UPC is only in the pull-down and not on the right-click context menu. Same with copy and paste, which I only JUST discovered even existed, because I never go to the pull-downs if I can help it. That should be in the right-click context menu. In reality, the right-click on title menu and DVD pull-down should be identical.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting eommen:
Quote:
Which means that the on-line database content depends a lot more on just a few contributors than you might imagine.

Many people who were used to contribute in the past have stopped when rules asked to recopy errors, and in certain cases, asked to add errors (especially spelling mistakes in names). People who want to have correct profiles, and also want to contribute, have to build profiles with incorrect data, then correct them for their own database.
So what did, in fact, people who want to have correct profiles ? They just stopped contributing...


I submit the correct data to the best of my ability, and will fix errors on profiles I find to have errors...if it's violation of the rules, then the rules need to be fixed, otherwise they can choose to decline the submission, but I'll not submit data I know to be incorrect, no matter what the rules say.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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Out of curiosity, I downloaded the Collectorz demo and it's database appears to be even more incomplete. I checked 3 box sets I recently submitted to DVDP, one didn't exist in their database and the other two were incomplete.  It also doesn't appear to do box sets very well. Of the 6 or so box set I randomly looked at NONE of them listed the contents in any logical way, so DVDP is still, by far the superior product.
 Last edited: by 69samael69
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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Having a bad string of luck here. Just got 5 movies in from amazon and only 2 of the UPCs exist in the database. At least they're all there in the DB, so making copies will be quick.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting 69samael69:
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I submit the correct data to the best of my ability, and will fix errors on profiles I find to have errors...if it's violation of the rules, then the rules need to be fixed, otherwise they can choose to decline the submission, but I'll not submit data I know to be incorrect, no matter what the rules say.


In fact rules ask to recopy exactly data on covers or credits. So if there is a spelling mistake in an overview, you "must" keep it in profile you contribute. And if the overview for a space opera describes a peplum, you "must" keep the peplum description. And when credits list GERARD DEPARDIEU, you "must" enter Gerard Depardieu, even if everybody knows it is Gérard, and even if it will break the linking for this actor. So, I agree with you that contributors should correct incorrect data, but a majority here decided that contributing errors was the thing to do. That is the reason why I stopped contributing, though I was in the past considered as a good contributor by Invelos (shown by near my name).
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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Quoting surfeur51:
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In fact rules ask to recopy exactly data on covers or credits. So if there is a spelling mistake in an overview, you "must" keep it in profile you contribute. And if the overview for a space opera describes a peplum, you "must" keep the peplum description. And when credits list GERARD DEPARDIEU, you "must" enter Gerard Depardieu, even if everybody knows it is Gérard, and even if it will break the linking for this actor. So, I agree with you that contributors should correct incorrect data, but a majority here decided that contributing errors was the thing to do. That is the reason why I stopped contributing, though I was in the past considered as a good contributor by Invelos (shown by near my name).


Now, I asked recently about incorrect cover data, specifically run time and the year the movie was made, and was told to ignore the cover and use what was correct, as long as I cited the source. i.e. IMDB or by playing the physical disk. Why should that be any different for mis-punctuated names or spelling mistakes?

I just did Warlock a couple weeks ago and this was the description on the submission, and it got released, "Canadian version of the DVD release. There is a time discrepancy on the cover. NOTE: The cover says the movie is 92 minutes. It is actually 103 minutes as every source says and I confirmed it by playing the movie. Cast/Crew from: 031398684336"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting 69samael69:
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Why should that be any different for mis-punctuated names or spelling mistakes?

Just because rules say that, and many people here agree. I asked many times to change those nonsenses, but the majority here voted against proposed changes.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
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Quoting 69samael69:
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Now, I asked recently about incorrect cover data, specifically run time and the year the movie was made, and was told to ignore the cover and use what was correct, as long as I cited the source. i.e. IMDB or by playing the physical disk. Why should that be any different for mis-punctuated names or spelling mistakes?

Because the allowed sources differ for the pieces of data entered:
• Cast and crew: credits of the movie on the disc (disallowed: third party databases, other versions of the movie)
• technical aspects (such as runtime, audio tracks, aspect ratio, etc.): the disc (and only the disc)

Remarks:
IMDb is not reliable by any means and excluded as valid source everywhere...
It is common that the data is completed step by step. Therefore it is (not the best, but) practice to use data from the cover instead of the disc or omit data which is hard to reach - or in some cases impossible to research (disc IDs without a BD-ROM drive; BD audio tracks without profound technical knowledge, etc.).
List of common name threads - Headshots starting point
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantFloorwalker
Dona Nobis Pacem
Registered: March 16, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:

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In fact rules ask to recopy exactly data on covers or credits. So if there is a spelling mistake in an overview, you "must" keep it in profile you contribute. And if the overview for a space opera describes a peplum, you "must" keep the peplum description. And when credits list GERARD DEPARDIEU, you "must" enter Gerard Depardieu, even if everybody knows it is Gérard, and even if it will break the linking for this actor. So, I agree with you that contributors should correct incorrect data, but a majority here decided that contributing errors was the thing to do. That is the reason why I stopped contributing, though I was in the past considered as a good contributor by Invelos (shown by near my name).


I agree.  The rules need to be changed.  Invelos loses many good contributors because of incorrect rules.  We should be allowed to change obvious mistakes.  There is a lot of corrected data in local databases that can't be contributed because the rules are wrong.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrant69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 132
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I only use IMDB to check to see the year a movie was released, if it's not on the cover, or obviously not correct. I like to think they can at least that bit of information consistently correct. 
 Last edited: by 69samael69
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
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And when credits list GERARD DEPARDIEU, you "must" enter Gerard Depardieu, even if everybody knows it is Gérard, and even if it will break the linking for this actor.


That's not actually spelled out in the rules, is it? I know there was a lot of discussion about it, and the most fanatic opposition came from Skip, who could not wrap his head around how turning Gérard into GERARD was actually common in French, so reversing it should be acceptable. But have you tried it lately? See if the screeners accept it, even though it may get a No vote from somebody.

Otherwise, using Gérard Depardieu credited as Gerard Depardieu is definitely correct according to the rules, and that maintains linkage. Or is that not good enough for you, Yves? There may be other names where that wouldn't work, though.

Spelling errors is a bit more tricky. Some errors may seem obvious, others not so much. Would you correct US spelling on a British release (or vice versa), for example? Some apparent errors may actually be puns, which perhaps not everybody gets. I would say that copying the overview exactly is the best compromise, and then you can correct things locally if you wish.
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