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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Bonus material from UHD/BD-combos
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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As it came to me recently because a user was removing features from the main profiles or voting No for my contributions containing features in the main which are only included on the Blu-ray in those combos:

Except from Lionsgate, most publishers just put the movie onto the UHD-disc, the bonus material only is on the included 2K-BD with movie and bonus. In which profile should we put it? The parent or the optional child for the BD, which is very often not existent because many users just don't care about the inferior medium?

The rules seem pretty clear to me:
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.


"Normal profile": Contains IMHO all info including bonus from all included discs. The film details should be used from the superior medium (UHD). Child profiles on disc level for other inferior media (BD/DVD) containing the movie are optional.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 2,252
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I asked this very question a week or so ago:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=891196&PageNum=2&messageID=2826815#M2826815

I really wish the rules would be updated. At this time, I have to lock the features part locally because I don't download the Blu-ray child profiles on my 4K discs.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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As I wrote before, for me, as a German (we know all about rules! ) and not native English speaker they seem obvious. I don't see, why the rules for BD/DVD should not apply to UHD/BD. Maybe the rules need a clarification for "normal profile", but for the rest a "The same applies to UHD/BD." would be sufficient.

I will lock my features at least for my US-UHDs as well. I want to see everything what's there for a movie without opening any child profiles. Especially not in the iPhone App.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 3,293
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A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile.

I would assume that since both UHD and BD are both HD Media, that details for both would be in the main profile.

But in a related matter, this would also seem to say to not list the details of the dvd in a BD/DVD combo pack in the main profile, even if the dvd contains more features than the BD.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Posts: 2,993
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile.

I would assume that since both UHD and BD are both HD Media, that details for both would be in the main profile.

But in a related matter, this would also seem to say to not list the details of the dvd in a BD/DVD combo pack in the main profile, even if the dvd contains more features than the BD.


Yes. This is saying not to include DVD-only special features on BD/DVD combo packs. (A lot of early MGM releases were like this.) I'd think by the same principle, a UHD/HD combo pack should only include details from the UHD and the BD info should go on a child profile. This would be consistent with how we handle similar scenarios.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:

Yes. This is saying not to include DVD-only special features on BD/DVD combo packs. (A lot of early MGM releases were like this.) I'd think by the same principle, a UHD/HD combo pack should only include details from the UHD and the BD info should go on a child profile. This would be consistent with how we handle similar scenarios.


Nope. This is saying to use the details from the HD-medium from an HD/DVD-combo). Details =/ features. The details of the movie are audio tracks, subtitles, running time and similar, but not the special features. There are different sections in the rules for details and features.

I've had a few of those MGM packs. They all had the features from the DVD listed in the main profile, and sometimes not even a child for the DVD.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I'd personally include features in the main profile. Unless it's a box set with different movies/seasons, I only care about the main UPC.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
Posts: 109
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile.

I would assume that since both UHD and BD are both HD Media, that details for both would be in the main profile.

But in a related matter, this would also seem to say to not list the details of the dvd in a BD/DVD combo pack in the main profile, even if the dvd contains more features than the BD.


Yes. This is saying not to include DVD-only special features on BD/DVD combo packs. (A lot of early MGM releases were like this.) I'd think by the same principle, a UHD/HD combo pack should only include details from the UHD and the BD info should go on a child profile. This would be consistent with how we handle similar scenarios.


I agree with this 100%.  And although obviously both UHD and BD are both HD Media, the rule was written when 2 HD Media types couldn't be possible with one release (ex there were no BD/HD-DVD releases).  I think a more apt indicator now would be that UHD and BD have separate check boxes for media type, much like BD and DVDs do.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,140
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Quoting DaMikstar:
Quote:
As I wrote before, for me, as a German (we know all about rules! ) and not native English speaker they seem obvious. I don't see, why the rules for BD/DVD should not apply to UHD/BD. Maybe the rules need a clarification for "normal profile", but for the rest a "The same applies to UHD/BD." would be sufficient.

I will lock my features at least for my US-UHDs as well. I want to see everything what's there for a movie without opening any child profiles. Especially not in the iPhone App.


Agree.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
I was out of bullets
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,912
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It has become painfully more obvious that we don't profile DVDs (BDs, 3Ds, 4Ks), anymore like the program says "DVD Profiler". We are now going to profile Combo Packs and Box Sets in one profile, which to me is ridiculous. I am often locking more and more content on my profiles. Regions, features, audio tracks and Subtitles are almost useless in these profiles as you don't have a clue which disc has what information. You end up having to check all discs, in some cases as many as 4, to find out what is on which one. Just plain stupid. Rant finished.    
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
 Last edited: by mreeder50
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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Yes, we have to profile combo packs, because the labels put the inferior medium in as a bonus for the less advanced players in a household, like the DVD player in the bathroom or the car-hifi. 

I can't think of any main profile that holds all the details from all the discs. The details usually are from the main disc, the features from the complete set. The child profiles, if there are any, have the details of the profiled disc and the features that are on that disc.
Region codes usually are used on disc level, but the main holds the smallest denominator. (This got a little lost with UHD.)

e.g.
The "Blade Runner Special Edition" 5-051892-210621:
Main: UHD-BD: details (audio tracks, subtitles) from UHD-BD, features from the complete set
Child 1: Final Cut BD: details (audio tracks, subtitles) from this BD, features that are on this disc
Child 2: Archival Versions BD: details (audio tracks, subtitles) from this BD (all the same for all three versions), features that are on this disc
Child 3: Workprint BD: details (audio tracks, subtitles) from this BD, features that are on this disc

The child profiles have a correct description, you can see at a glance which features are included.

But, I must admit, a lot of users do not care about child profiles for the inferior medium. There are either no child profiles in the database or, when changing something in main and child, you get 20 votes for the main and 1 or 2 for the child. It seems nearly no-one even loads the childs when available.


Box Sets on the other hand are quite empty, because most info belongs to the child profiles only except info regarding every movie in this box set like one digital copy code for three movies.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 2,993
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Quoting DaMikstar:
Quote:
Box Sets on the other hand are quite empty, because most info belongs to the child profiles only except info regarding every movie in this box set like one digital copy code for three movies.


The rules don't support this. Recent discussion determined digital copies go on the individual movies.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Quoting DaMikstar:
Quote:
Box Sets on the other hand are quite empty, because most info belongs to the child profiles only except info regarding every movie in this box set like one digital copy code for three movies.


The rules don't support this. Recent discussion determined digital copies go on the individual movies.

The rules also don't support adding other features like booklets, figurines, patches (like in the Friday the 13th tin box) to the parent profile. But where do they belong to if not to the parent? I haven't seen one profile where this stuff was put into a child profile. Why should the code for a whole collection be put into each child when there are no individual codes for each movie?

That recent discussion was inconclusive. It just shows that the rules need to be adjusted as my example with goodies in a box set clearly shows.
 Last edited: by DaMikstar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,140
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Quoting DaMikstar:
Quote:
Box Sets on the other hand are quite empty, because most info belongs to the child profiles only except info regarding every movie in this box set like one digital copy code for three movies.


The rules don't support this. Recent discussion determined digital copies go on the individual movies.


I get the desire to profile a digital copy to a specific movie, but that makes little sense since if you're profiling based on each individual disc (disc ID) most digital copies today aren't on a disc.  They're on a paper slip in the main release (package) so they have nothing to due with the disc.  Are we profiling discs or movies because I've heard both arguments before.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
Posts: 109
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Quoting mreeder50:
Quote:
It has become painfully more obvious that we don't profile DVDs (BDs, 3Ds, 4Ks), anymore like the program says "DVD Profiler". We are now going to profile Combo Packs and Box Sets in one profile, which to me is ridiculous. I am often locking more and more content on my profiles. Regions, features, audio tracks and Subtitles are almost useless in these profiles as you don't have a clue which disc has what information. You end up having to check all discs, in some cases as many as 4, to find out what is on which one. Just plain stupid. Rant finished.    


Agreed especially since there is no place in the rules that explicitly states it should be handled this way despite some people's claims to the contrary.  People seem to be projecting their wants onto the rules where nothing explicitly (nor would I say implicitly) exists.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaMikstar
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 45
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Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
Agreed especially since there is no place in the rules that explicitly states it should be handled this way despite some people's claims to the contrary.  People seem to be projecting their wants onto the rules where nothing explicitly (nor would I say implicitly) exists.


OK, let's do this again slowly and step-by-step:
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked.

"Normal profile" means a profile like you would do for any standard DVD/BD/UHD release without any other medium with a movie present. You put in all the info from this release. This includes all the bonus materials, even when there is a bonus disc.

This is mandatory for the main profile of a combo. The difference is, there is another disc with the movie on it. You fill the main profile with all there is including the bonus materials (features), except the film details. Then you tick all media types present.

Quote:
A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile.

Remember: This was written, when Full-HD was top of the line, but now there is UHD as well and one step higher. "HD" referred to Full-HD media as there was nothing better. We now have UHD > Full-HD > SD (DVD).

This sentence means, you use the film details (Remember, they do not include features!) from the superior medium and put it into the main profile. If it is a BD/DVD combo, you use the film details from the Full-HD-BD, if it is a UHD/BD combo, you use the film details from the UHD-BD.

Quote:
However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.

If you like, you may now add a child for the included inferior medium and fill it on disc level. This is optional and not necessary, because the important info for this release is completely in the main profile.


Rules (Film Details): http://invelos.com/dvdpro/contributions/Rules.aspx?display=filmdetails
Rules (Features): http://invelos.com/dvdpro/contributions/Rules.aspx?display=discextras


P.S.: It is ridiculous to think any regular contributor wants to put everything into a profile where it does not belong like mreeder50 rants about. No one wants that! Maybe newbies do it, but not regulars. We put in what belongs in. Even if it is not what you want. But it is covered by the rules. The only one "projecting their wants" is you!
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