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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
3rd Party Database
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,934
Posted:
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
From the rules

If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

What part of that rule hasn't already been addressed already in this thread? 



Not a thing, more for future sake if someone is looking far a discussion concerning this subject.

I feel that it is nice to have the rule quoted
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRutan
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Australia Posts: 1,524
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The credits for cast. I generally note the character names from watching the films. Names also are often mention in the overview. I have no problem with a third party database (Non-commercial) for confirmation or spelling of character names.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,759
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[quote]a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed[/quote]

I think Wikipedia is a fine source at that point because it doesn't fit that part of the rule:
- it's not a commercial database
- their stated usage license does not forbid such use

Just my two cents.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantzappman
Registered: September 6, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 78
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Kathy,
I'm disappointed in Invelos, not in you. I respect that you have your opinion.

If they can't be bothered to explain why they decline my hard work, then they don't deserve it. Right now I don't feel like contributing any more of my profile work.

I understand how you feel.
Your contributions to the Database are appreciated by us users  .
The programs you create and make available to the community are also appreciated .
I have been using "TmdbTvShowCheck" a lot this week creating disc level programs for some TV show seasons.
 Last edited: by zappman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,458
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I've just spent a lot of time looking for the threads that addressed this topic without success.

So, I went over the "rules" again carefully and the answer was there...and I was wrong.

"If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role."

Please note it says "another source", singular, and NOT sources, plural.

The rule continues:

"However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited."

Therefore, as long as we do not violate copyright licenses, we do not need to use multiple sources to contribute uncredited roles.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 83
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I'm currently watching The Untouchables (great series - surprisingly violent.  How they got away with this in 1960 I have no idea).  The profiles in the database have no cast and crew info, so I'm adding these disc by disc.

Crew's fine, they're comprehensive credits for an old series.  The problem is with the cast - the smaller parts are credited perfectly, but the big guest stars are credited by name only - no character names listed. 

When contributing these I could do one of two things:
- Leave some of the actors credited without roles
- Give the characters names.

As the smaller parts have credited roles, I'd prefer the guest stars to have them too.  So I'm giving them names.  But where do I get the names from?  The credits aren't remotely consistent when it comes to the named characters - some have titles, some have surnames, some have two names, some just a first name.  If the proper credits aren't consistent, how do I choose what name to give the guest stars?  If their name is in the title ("The Nero Rankin Story", for example) then that's easy - Will Kuluva gets a credit as "Nero Rankin".  But I could just as easily credit him as Mr. Rankin, Rankin or Nero.  All would be correct.  All would be used within the episode (as this concerns gangsters, it's particularly complicated by the fact that a lot of these people have nicknames like "knives" or "big Jim").

I can't see there being a right or wrong answer to this.  We clearly can't source all our information from elsewhere, partly for copyright reasons, but chiefly because the IMDb is almost always wrong (I have yet to find a single episode of The Untouchables where the IMDb actually matches the on-screen credits).  So this is largely down to personal preference.

Personally, if someone has put the work in to accurately submit the cast and crew, I'm less worried that they have the character names credited correctly - the most important part is that the actors are right, and I'm grateful that someone's put the time and work in to doing this.  If the names are on screen then fine, use that.  If they're not, then stick down whatever you want.  I'd rather a character name than a blank.  I don't care if you credit Sean Connery as 007, Bond, James, Commander Bond, Cmdr James Bond or simply James Bond.  All are correct.  The most important thing is that the credit for Sean Connery is there.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 1,373
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here. ...
Of course the screeners don't provide any explanation. Or possibility to argue my case.


As far as I've aware it has never been mentioned, or at least not publicly, who the screeners are and whether or not if they are also users of the database.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 4,245
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here. ...
Of course the screeners don't provide any explanation. Or possibility to argue my case.


As far as I've aware it has never been mentioned, or at least not publicly, who the screeners are and whether or not if they are also users of the database.



I certainly hope they are users of this program and have a basic knowledge of how it works and it's general purpose.
That alone would give them the ability to judge contributions fairly.

But we have no idea who they are.
For all we know they could be family members or friends of the Ken Cole/others. We also don't know their ages either. There could be kids judging contributions.

In regards to decline notices, I think it would be a great idea that the notices are very detailed as to why it was declined, even providing links to the rules or specific posts by Cole or other Invelos staff.
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