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  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 ...8  Previous   Next
Discussion on Credited As field (Locked)
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
As for the Courtney Cox Arquette example, something like 'first regular professional credit' could work. The disadvantage of using something like 'most frequent credit' is that if we start off with Courtney Cox as the master name, she could stay married and acting for a long enough time that CCA could become her most frequent credit. So better to start with the first credit, yet allow for exceptions (you know we'll find one) where someone is credited a Name A for one film and then uses Name B for the next 50 years.


For the record, she has already gone back to using Courtney Cox. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Skip, we ALL want "As Credited" and are happy doing so.l

We ALL want cross-linking of the actors and crew. Ken gave that to us, HE wants us to use it; at least for a while to see how it goes. WE want to use it. please don't be destructive and help us discuss this, so that the contributions that affect the system will follow some sort of Guidelines/Rules. If you just don't want us to use it, say so and then let us continue the discussion.
Achim [Ya-Shin//Nuo]
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
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And for non-standard naming conventions:
In these days, the internet provides us with multiple sources for bio's, actors homepages, fanpages, wikipedia and even IMDB. We just need to choose one version in the beginning, and then we'll only use the credited as. Where is the problem?

Same procedure as always I guess, skip still makes his own rules (James Bond DVDs anyone )
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Here's a radical idea:

Leave the "as credited" aspect of cast naming as is in 2.5 - with this exception:  add a text field in which we can enter other versions of that name IF we know of them, an "Also known as" block if you will.

So, if Joe Blow is credited as Joseph M. Blow in Movie X, you enter that in the main "as credited" slot, then you put Joe Blow, and maybe Joey Blow, in the AKA block. 

That protects the integrity of the database, while still providing the other names for those who just have to know such things.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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That brings up another issue:

The "Helena Bonham Carter" or "Courtney Cox Arquette" problem.  We need to have a hard and fast rule for determining what slot each part of the name is placed in.

It's my opinion that unless there is an actual physical indicator in the name, namely a HYPHEN, one must place the "middle" part of the name in the "Middle Name" slot for consistency.  There is no definitive way to prove beyond a doubt that someone has a compound last name if there is no indicator of that fact IN the name itself.  And, if the credits don't show it that way, it shouldn't be entered that way, some opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, but I don't care.  It's consistent, and that's more important.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That protects the integrity of the database, while still providing the other names for those who just have to know such things.

The new method protects the integrity AND the usefullness of the database, while still providing the other names (typos, abbreviations, missing middle initials etc.) for those who just have to know such things. 

Nothing of "as credited" is lost - we just gain linking...
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
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You also have to remember (since someone brought up the DeNiro thing from Wedding Crashers) is that sometimes there are misspellings in the credits of films. I know that for a fact: a friend of mine got her name spelled wrong in the credits of Jackson's King Kong (well, when they mastered the DVD).

So it's got to be some kind of standard that applies to even this stuff. It's almost like you just need to use, as their "real" name, the one they are most familiar as: Samuel L. Jackson, Robert DeNiro, etc.

As for what Rifter brought up (the CCA and HBC), I would say it could stay fluid, and if you can prove how a person uses their name, that's how it gets used.

Example: Say in an interview, Helena is addressed as "Ms. Bonham Carter." That's pretty good proof that she's using "Bonham Carter" is her last name.

And like I said in the arguments at the "other site" on this subject, it's just like the Asian naming convention. Some people are familiar with it one way, and some are with other ways. I've got at least five people I know of personally that don't use a hyphen with their name, it it's still their last name (Cathy Andrews Konminski (name changed slightly to protect her innocence)). She didn't "give up" her middle name when she got married - she writes her full name as Catherine Elizabeth Andrews Konminski.

If there is arguing about it, why don't we have a poll to settle it. Majority rules. Or if we want to submit to absolute domination here, just have Ken tell us what we are going to use.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I vote for maintaining accuracy of names (best way that we can) for the main database. For Skip and others who share his point of view, you have "as credited" option now. I don't think degree of ping poing that is often used as a potential pitfall is going to be that bad. I think there are many knowledgeble people on these boards and dumbing down the program and database is not the answer.

ps. Skip, it's "xradman", not "xrad".
My Home Theater
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Here's a radical idea:

Leave the "as credited" aspect of cast naming as is in 2.5 - with this exception:  add a text field in which we can enter other versions of that name IF we know of them, an "Also known as" block if you will.

So, if Joe Blow is credited as Joseph M. Blow in Movie X, you enter that in the main "as credited" slot, then you put Joe Blow, and maybe Joey Blow, in the AKA block. 

That protects the integrity of the database, while still providing the other names for those who just have to know such things.

But as of today, this is not how the program works. The program lets you select the common name AND then add 'as credited' IF it is needed.

pdf
Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That brings up another issue:

The "Helena Bonham Carter" or "Courtney Cox Arquette" problem.  We need to have a hard and fast rule for determining what slot each part of the name is placed in.

It's my opinion that unless there is an actual physical indicator in the name, namely a HYPHEN, one must place the "middle" part of the name in the "Middle Name" slot for consistency.  There is no definitive way to prove beyond a doubt that someone has a compound last name if there is no indicator of that fact IN the name itself.  And, if the credits don't show it that way, it shouldn't be entered that way, some opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, but I don't care.  It's consistent, and that's more important.

We understand that you don't care, BUT some of us do.

In the case of "Helena Bonham Carter" there are many films where the cast listing has the first name in mixed case and the last name(s) is all upper case, guess how she is listed.

One of the VERY smart things that Ken did for 3.0 is when he added the "as credits' field, he made it a single field so you don't need to worry about which name(s) is/are first or last.

pdf
Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That brings up another issue:

The "Helena Bonham Carter" or "Courtney Cox Arquette" problem.  We need to have a hard and fast rule for determining what slot each part of the name is placed in.

It's my opinion that unless there is an actual physical indicator in the name, namely a HYPHEN, one must place the "middle" part of the name in the "Middle Name" slot for consistency.  There is no definitive way to prove beyond a doubt that someone has a compound last name if there is no indicator of that fact IN the name itself.  And, if the credits don't show it that way, it shouldn't be entered that way, some opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, but I don't care.  It's consistent, and that's more important.


There's that "consistency vs accuracy" argument again.

You want consistency; I want accuracy.  Consistent data is useless if it's wrong!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Gerri,

I think what we need for this discussion is an "area" like the "Contribution Discussion" area, where we can start individual voting threads on specific names and then discuss those names in that thread.

Just a thought.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Again, hal it's all in how one defines accuracy. Accuracy against what yardstick.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Gerri,

I think what we need for this discussion is an "area" like the "Contribution Discussion" area, where we can start individual voting threads on specific names and then discuss those names in that thread.

Just a thought.


I would be thinking this also, easier to find actors if they had their own thread subject.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That brings up another issue:

The "Helena Bonham Carter" or "Courtney Cox Arquette" problem.  We need to have a hard and fast rule for determining what slot each part of the name is placed in.

It's my opinion that unless there is an actual physical indicator in the name, namely a HYPHEN, one must place the "middle" part of the name in the "Middle Name" slot for consistency.  There is no definitive way to prove beyond a doubt that someone has a compound last name if there is no indicator of that fact IN the name itself.  And, if the credits don't show it that way, it shouldn't be entered that way, some opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, but I don't care.  It's consistent, and that's more important.


There's that "consistency vs accuracy" argument again.

You want consistency; I want accuracy.  Consistent data is useless if it's wrong!


Accuracy doesn't mean spit if you can't track it from record to record.  I NEVER said I didn't want accuracy.  But, I also know how a relational database is SUPPOSED to work, and data consistency (the data that is actually STORED) is more important than technical accuracy.

Let's say Actor A has fifteen different variations of his name that are in cast lists.  Being consistent with how you enter any actor's name makes it EASY to be accurate down the line with how you PRESENT information for viewing.  You make the output do the work, not the data entry people.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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