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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Btw, the argueing is often not just because of wanting it the correct, often it's just to be justified or just to don't justify another user. That is a pity that there is no trust between users. If a Spanish user tells me that correct name for "Penelope Cruz" is "Penélope Cruz", I trust him. If a user from Sweden tells me that "Gosta Bredefeldt" should be "Gösta Bredefeldt", I trust him, and it doesn' need an encyclopedia to be documented. Accentuation is much more easier to solve that parsing, with spelling rules from different languages. Andre, Melanie, Francois, Frederic or Veronique just do not exist for French names... | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Can't we just accept the simple fact that Mr. Maranne is usually credited without the accent on the "e" in his first name, and move on? CLT results say the contrary. André Maranne wins easily (73/205 against 32/109), so we can move on... | | | | Images from movies |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
André Maranne wins easily (73/205 against 32/109), so we can move on... Yes, the numbers on face value virtually ALWAYS declare the IMDb-name variant as the winner - no surprise there. That is, however, exactly why threads such as this one are helpful. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
That is a pity that there is no trust between users. I agree there is no trust shown by some users but please don't paint us all with the same brush. I am more than willing to trust many of the users around here who have shown their expertise in certain areas. I know others feel the same way as well. As to those who seemingly mistrust everyone that's too bad for them but unfortunately it does create issues here for all of us. Quote:
If a Spanish user tells me that correct name for "Penelope Cruz" is "Penélope Cruz", I trust him. If a user from Sweden tells me that "Gosta Bredefeldt" should be "Gösta Bredefeldt", I trust him, and it doesn' need an encyclopedia to be documented. Accentuation is much more easier to solve that parsing, with spelling rules from different languages. Andre, Melanie, Francois, Frederic or Veronique just do not exist for French names...  Couldn't agree more. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
André Maranne wins easily (73/205 against 32/109), so we can move on...
Yes, the numbers on face value virtually ALWAYS declare the IMDb-name variant as the winner - no surprise there. That is, however, exactly why threads such as this one are helpful. Right... Ken has stated that if it could be documented (threads such as this) we are to go by the credits over the CLT. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
That is, however, exactly why threads such as this one are helpful. Helpful ? To make a huge work to replace incorrect data by correct one is to the benefit of all the community. To replace correct data by incorrect one seems less helpful... Some will discuss about what is correct and what is incorrect. Common name has a real meaning when we know that IVETTE GONZALEZ and ALEJANDRA FLORES are the same person. Both names exist in credits, so we have to choose, and the most used name is a good choice. Then we have André MARANNE and ANDRE MARANNE. Those two typographic variants have exactly the same meaning : André Maranne. To replace that name by Andre Maranne which does not exist in reality, NOR in credits (we have only ANDRE MARANNE, not Andre Maranne) has no sense, specially when CLT says "André". | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | But the data is correct for DVD Profiler purposes. You don't seem to understand for DVD Profiler Purposes it doesn't matter what the "Correct" name is... just the most commonly used version of the name. THAT is the data we are looking for (per Ken's instructions). | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
But this isn't as we should do according the rules.  
Yes, it is .
Rules (updated 4/02/09) : "Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead."
For people who do not know standard capitalization rules in another country, they can find it easily in IMDb, without copying entire lists of credits. A name is not copyrighted. By the way, it is easier to check the accentuation in IMDb than search all variants in CLT to add the proper "common name" to obtain linking.
Perhaps you saw in the rules something I missed... not in the forum monthes before last rule update, of course. Was this part of the rule really newer than the comment from Ken that we make É to é and E to e in all capitalized names? |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Btw, the argueing is often not just because of wanting it the correct, often it's just to be justified or just to don't justify another user.
That is a pity that there is no trust between users. If a Spanish user tells me that correct name for "Penelope Cruz" is "Penélope Cruz", I trust him. If a user from Sweden tells me that "Gosta Bredefeldt" should be "Gösta Bredefeldt", I trust him, and it doesn' need an encyclopedia to be documented. Accentuation is much more easier to solve that parsing, with spelling rules from different languages. Andre, Melanie, Francois, Frederic or Veronique just do not exist for French names... I think it isn't this easy with names. On normal words, of course. Just take my name. It could be spelled: Philipp Philip Phillipp Filip Fillipp Filipp ... For actors it's still more difficult, because you can never know if he really is using "normal" spelling rules for his name.  |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | No it is not. As you can see on THIS PAGE (Revision History) the only thing updated on February 4, 2009 is the Original Title Rule. Nothing more. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Just take my name. It could be spelled:
Philipp
Philip
Phillipp
Filip
Fillipp
Filipp
...
And how do you spell it ? Don't you know ??? As for André, it may be spelt André André André... or, exceptionnally... André... nothing else... | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | I spell Philipp, but also Phillipp and Philip are very common. And even if it hurts my eyes also Filip is used.
And there are many more like that for example the female name Miriam also exist as Mirjam.
So even if I'm German I can't say what is the correct spelling.
If in France there's just André possible, Ok, but we can't generalize that for all languages. So imho taking what's on the screen with the called rules is not as bad as it looks in some eyes. |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
No it is not.
As you can see on THIS PAGE (Revision History)
the only thing updated on February 4, 2009 is the Original Title Rule. Nothing more. Thanks, why haven't I seen that.  (Again the work was too hard ) |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I understand what you are saying VirusPil. That post was more for the benefit of Speedy666 Still thanks from my side. It's always interesting to see something what's discussed in the rules comitee forum. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Was this part of the rule really newer than the comment from Ken that we make É to é and E to e in all capitalized names? Ken's statement has been made in 05/2008. When Ken updated the rules (twice in 11/2008, then in 02/2009), he didn't update that part. We have to consider chronology : if we do not, why not use Gerri's statement : Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
For clarification:
Just as with titles, when having to alter cast or crew because they are listed in all capitals, use capitialization rules standard to the language of the cast/crew member's name or nationality.
-Gerri | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm I right that the common name is mostly for the linking? Or what's the reason that the common name is so important for some users?
If it's just for linking, just a idea for Ken (if possible):
Would it be possible to link the "credited as" names to the common names, so that even if I don't know the actor's common name I find the right actor in database?
For example if a movie has the credit "Richard Bachman", "Stephen King" would pop up. So that we always get the same actor as proposal, even if it's credited in some variants? |
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