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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | Kindly refer to my original post - it was about role names for interviewees in documentaries. Birds are not interviewees, and the screen caps that Yves provided, while interesting, are irrelevant with regard to my original question.
Credits come in two flavours: standard credits (which are defined in the rules) and non-standard credits (anything else as long as it's in the film). Subtitles belong to the latter category, as well as e.g. verbal introductions (which I have encountered in the past as well). In my book: as long as an individual is being named in a film itself it is a credit of some sort.
Oh, and for the record, Yves: I don't care one bit about my number of contributions, so kindly stop insinuating the opposite. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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  | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Kindly refer to my original post - it was about role names for interviewees in documentaries. Birds are not interviewees, and the screen caps that Yves provided, while interesting, are irrelevant with regard to my original question.
Credits come in two flavours: standard credits (which are defined in the rules) and non-standard credits (anything else as long as it's in the film). Subtitles belong to the latter category, as well as e.g. verbal introductions (which I have encountered in the past as well). In my book: as long as an individual is being named in a film itself it is a credit of some sort.
Oh, and for the record, Yves: I don't care one bit about my number of contributions, so kindly stop insinuating the opposite. Well said! | | | | Cor |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Kindly refer to my original post - it was about role names for interviewees in documentaries. Birds are not interviewees, and the screen caps that Yves provided, while interesting, are irrelevant with regard to my original question. No this is not irrelevant, as your question is related to the fact that subtitles are, or are not considered as credits. If they are not, I think my first answer (Dominic Lieven : Himself (uncredited)) is correct. If they are, we have to consider all the subtitles that describe someone (human or animal) that "played" or "had a role" specially for this movie or documentary (as were those trained birds). Your simple question opens a door that should remain shut, in my opinion. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | To me it's not the shape or form (subtitles) that defines a credit. To me a credit always refers to naming an individual in a film, regardless of the way he or she is being named. This definition is similar to the one in this film terms glossary, which defines credits as "names and functions of persons and corporations contributing and responsible for the artistic or intellectual content of a film" (my bolding). According to these definitions, the subtitles for Dominic Lieven constitute a credit and the ones for your birds do not. Neither would a subtitle for the Grand Canyon in a travel documentary or one for some collective of people, e.g. the name of a tribe of Indians in a documentary on the Amazon region in Brazil. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,325 |
| | Posted: | | | | I got to ask... why would you even consider it a subtitle? I personally wouldn't consider something like...  to be a subtitle... but a credit within the Documentary /show. Of all my years of seeing such a thing I never seen it as a subtitle... but a credit... an announcement of who is being interviewed. And to be honest I am kind of surprised to see someone call such a thing a subtitle. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thank you for the screen cap Pete. I would never consider that to be a subtitle and can not imagine why anyone would. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,325 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just to be completely clear... that is not from the documentary the OP posted about... as I don't have it. But knew what he was talking about to show it. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | I certainly have no attachment to the term subtitle whatsoever. The antithesis between subtitles and credits is an artificial one IMHO. As I said before: it's not the shape or form that defines a credit, but the content: names and functions/roles of individuals in a film. E.g. I recall a war documentary in which an Air Force Colonel verbally introduced some men and their ranks in his squadron, followed by interviews with these men. Even these are credits (odd ones, admittedly). |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I got to ask... why would you even consider it a subtitle? Because the OP wrote in his first post "there are interviewees in documentaries with their name in on-screen subtitles". But OK, I can admit that argument, so I rewrite my last post : "No this is not irrelevant, as your question is related to the fact that on screen texts during the movie (documentary) are, or are not considered as credits. If they are not, I think my first answer (Dominic Lieven : Himself (uncredited)) is correct. If they are, we have to consider all the texts that describe someone (human or animal) that "played" or "had a role" specially for this movie or documentary (as were those trained birds).Your simple question opens a door that should remain shut, in my opinion." | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Just to be completely clear... that is not from the documentary the OP posted about... as I don't have it. But knew what he was talking about to show it. Your screen cap is a very accurate representation of what I have been referring to all along. If my using the word "subtitle" caused confusion, I'd like to apologise. |
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| Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,325 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I got to ask... why would you even consider it a subtitle?
Because the OP wrote in his first post "there are interviewees in documentaries with their name in on-screen subtitles".
But OK, I can admit that argument, so I rewrite my last post :
"No this is not irrelevant, as your question is related to the fact that on screen texts during the movie (documentary) are, or are not considered as credits. If they are not, I think my first answer (Dominic Lieven : Himself (uncredited)) is correct. If they are, we have to consider all the texts that describe someone (human or animal) that "played" or "had a role" specially for this movie or documentary (as were those trained birds).
Your simple question opens a door that should remain shut, in my opinion." I have to say going by the image I posted and the images you posted I consider those two thing to be completely different. No where near the same.... so would never treat them as the same. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I consider those two thing to be completely different. And I consider them as exactly the same. So to avoid problems, we'll have to write a rule, clear and simple, that accept your screenshot and exclude mine, and can answer to any case of added text that we might find in movies/documentaries refering to "actors" that are on screen at that time... Have you any idea about that new rule ? | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | When I have a bit more time available, I'll try to come up with a proposal. |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yves,
I don't understand your position. Using Pete's screen cap do you consider that subtitles?
If so, then...
I don't and here is my rationale. When I am watching a movie and have the subtitles option turned off, I see this information but nothing else.
But, when the subtitle option is on - the entire movie's words come on screen.
The data in Pete's screen cap do not to be "subtitled" because this data is already written on the screen. Therefore they are not subtitles.
If not, can you please clarify what you mean. Thank you. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,325 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I consider those two thing to be completely different.
And I consider them as exactly the same.
So to avoid problems, we'll have to write a rule, clear and simple, that accept your screenshot and exclude mine, and can answer to any case of added text that we might find in movies/documentaries refering to "actors" that are on screen at that time...
Have you any idea about that new rule ? I honestly don't believe we need a new rule as I believe it is covered already.... as I know them as credits (as most people seem to) we would use this rule... Rules Quote: Quote:
If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits. As they are credited elsewhere (In the actual documentary)... So I would say at the most Ken and/or Gerri may want to clarify it at the most... but a new rule? Nope don't see it needed. | | | | Pete |
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